Leading with Integrity: The Art of Feminine Leadership -37

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Marli Williams [: 00:00:00

Hey, everyone. What is happening? Welcome back to the podcast where this week I am going to be hanging out with my good friend, Andrea Leda, who was actually one of my very first mentors. We met over 10 years ago, and I actually took my coach training with Andrea. And she is an incredible mentor, powerful coach, a force to be reckoned with. And this week, we are diving into the topic of feminine leadership and really using the gifts that we have to meet the needs of the time and to rise to the occasion and meet this moment with purpose, with passion, and with power, and unravel the belief that we aren't enough. And so this podcast is a reminder that you are enough, and you have gifts that the world needs. So tune in this week for this amazing conversation. Let's dive in.

Marli Williams [: 00:01:03

Hey, everyone. What's happening? I am super stoked to welcome you to the Marli Williams podcast, where we will explore authentic leadership, transformational facilitation, and how to create epic experiences for your audiences every single time. I am your host, Marli Williams, bringing you thought provoking insights, expert interviews, and actionable strategies to unlock your potential as a leader, facilitator, and speaker. Thank you for joining me on this journey of growth, transformation, and impact. Let's lead together. The Marli Williams podcast begins now. Let's dive in. Hey, everybody.

Marli Williams [: 00:01:48

What is happening? Super stoked to welcome you back to the Marli Williams podcast, where today I get to hang out with one of my good friends and also one of my mentors, someone who I have studied with, who I did my coach training with. Andrea, welcome to the show. Aw.

Andrea Leda [: 00:02:07

Thank you. It's so weird to hear you say mentor, like, maybe back in the day.

Marli Williams [: 00:02:12

Back in the day. Yeah. Mentors sometimes become peers, become friends.

Andrea Leda [: 00:02:16

Totally. It's all we're all fluid.

Marli Williams [: 00:02:18

We're all teachers. We're all students. Yes. I know that your work has evolved over the years, and I would love to give you an opportunity to introduce yourself to this podcast community, your work in the world, and what's just like lighting you up right now? And then we'll we'll dive in.

Andrea Leda [: 00:02:37

Professionally speaking, I'm a professional coach. I have been coaching for I think I just did the math. 13 years? 10 years officially in business, which I just passed my 10 year anniversary a few weeks ago, which is wild. This thing was never supposed to succeed. So it feels like a cool it's a cool milestone to be able to done this for 10 years and to be still in a relationship with so many people, especially the women that came through all the many different iterations of my work over the last decade. So it's cool to be. It's a full circle moment. I love this for us.

Marli Williams [: 00:03:12

Full circle. And the crazy thing is that we we got connected before I even became a coach, left my full time job. I I remember talking to you when I still worked at Western Washington University in Bellingham, and you grew up in Bellingham, and so we had this, like, Pacific Northwest connection. And so, yeah, we've known each other now for about 10 years, which is That's wild.

Andrea Leda [: 00:03:36

Yeah. It's it goes fast, doesn't it? It's crazy. Fly by.

Marli Williams [: 00:03:41

It's like, wait, how did that happen?

Andrea Leda [: 00:03:43

I don't know. I don't know. And it really has me I'm sure we'll get into this. It really has me thinking about, what am I doing? This this goes so fast. I just turned 40. I know that I'm in good company, but I just turned 40. And I'm sure for many of your listeners, that was maybe decades ago. And for some, it's decades ahead.

Andrea Leda [: 00:04:04

But as a woman, it feels like this is a moment that I get to really codify what the heck I'm doing with my work professionally. Where do I stand personally? Am I using my voice? Am I doing everything I can with what I have within me? It's taking me 10 years as a coach. I shared this with you earlier to actually feel like I know what I'm doing, which sounds, I'm sure, mind boggling for some of your listeners who are maybe just getting started in their career. But there's a level of and I hate to use the word mastery, but there's a level of maybe proficiency. And that excel that comes with time and experience. There's, like, the education piece of it that I was steeped in for so long, both as a trainer, but also just as someone who is hungry to understand what do we do with coaching, what's our duty. We know what it's been outlined for, but how do we wanna use it? And to get great at that, it took me about 10 years to figure out what the heck this thing is that I do, and how do I wanna facilitate coaching in the world. So for a number of years, I worked with coaches.

Andrea Leda [: 00:05:06

That's a fairly common track. And I kept getting asked, mostly by women, how I was not only how how was I doing what I did, how did I coach the way I did. They wanted to coach more intuitively. I think there was something that I was doing that a lot of women were leaning into. Mostly, I was just, like, bucking the system, to be honest. I think what I was doing was going, okay. I get the rules. Which ones can I break and how often? And that's always been sort of my MO.

Andrea Leda [: 00:05:33

And I think there's something inherently attractive for some people in that. I find I lean into leaders who are breaking the rules purposefully and with some intent, not just for the sake of rebellion, but because they need to be broken. And I did that in business, and I and I think I still do that in business. And so I took that as a call for a long time to turn back toward practitioners like myself and support them, and I wanted to see more women succeed in this field. I wanted to see them actually make money. The statistics for new coaches are not good. They're just not good, and I don't know that they're gonna get better. And I wish I could sit here after 10 years of teaching and mentoring coaches and say, like, we're turning a corner.

Andrea Leda [: 00:06:11

I don't know that that's entirely true. I think the does not do nearly enough to support the amount of influx of students we have coming into coaching to actually warrant it succeeding. And so I spent a lot of time feeling really responsible, both concurrently and a little bit incongruently, to turn toward that population. And I had a lot of fun doing it. And I've put it down. And about 6 months ago, started to get the rumble actually, about 2 years ago. But 6 months ago, I started to get that rumble to really start asking the question, what is it I want to do with this skill set, with this toolbox? You know, I there's a lot of women leaders that I look up to that I feel have made really great strides in their career, and who are doing it to me in a more robust way, that I just felt the way you've been utilizing your work, you're also putting what, to me, felt like, the way you've been utilizing your work, you're also putting what, to me, felt like on the chopping block, potentially, how I make money, how I'm known, my reach, my impact, and my sustainability as a business. You know, I'm the primary income rider for my family.

Andrea Leda [: 00:07:21

So that didn't feel like a risk I had the permission to take until it becomes the permission slip you have to take. Like, I just couldn't any longer. So that's where I come from. That's my background and kinda keeps us up to today.

Marli Williams [: 00:07:36

Yeah. I appreciate you sharing that perspective and insight. Around becoming around becoming a coach and how much you can make. And the Instagram ads that people see, the 6 figures in 6 days. And do you niche? Do you not knit? Like, all of it's just such a noisy, noisy space. And, you know, you've been in in that realm for a long time, and I think this part of the conversation I'm excited to have with you today as as I felt the rumble to let go of camp yes and, you know, something that, again, similarly became known for. There was some comfort there. It was a primary source of income and to walk away from something that looked successful.

Marli Williams [: 00:08:23

And they kinda say, I don't know what's next. Not even like, here's the next thing. But it's like, I'm letting this go, And people asking those questions, well, well, why? Or being disappointed. And for me, my my response was like, it's time. There was something in me that knew that it it felt that version of my work felt complete. Uh-huh. And I also didn't know exactly what was next, but I knew that I had to create space for whatever that is. And that kinda like, how do we lean into trusting that knowing and trusting that voice in this very again, like, capitalist, patriarchal goal.

Marli Williams [: 00:09:03

Like, well, this is how I make money and just suck it up. Like, this should be enough. I shouldn't want anything different. Like, why would I change something that's, like, kind of working or something that I don't know? Like, for the familiar and the known, even though it's like it feels like it's time to let it go, to step into I don't know land. Yeah. And how we choose to evolve in our work. And I'll say one more thing, and I'm curious about your thoughts about this because I know that we've worked together. You've been my mentor.

Marli Williams [: 00:09:38

And the one question that I think that I've asked you about 80 times is, like, Andrea, what's my thing?

Andrea Leda [: 00:09:45

I think you've asked me more than 80. I've lost count.

Marli Williams [: 00:09:48

Closer to 800.

Andrea Leda [: 00:09:49

What's my thing? What's my thing?

Marli Williams [: 00:09:52

Tell me my thing.

Andrea Leda [: 00:09:53

And what's my answer to you every single time? You are the thing. It's so annoying, isn't it? It's the worst answer.

Marli Williams [: 00:10:01

What does that mean? And what do I do with that? And how do I make money being the thing? And again, when we are the face of our business, and it's like I get caught up, I think, in the pressure that entrepreneurship. And like, if I don't get a client, if I don't book a gig,

Marli Williams [: 00:10:22

I don't make money. It's like I'm getting a paycheck. And so there is this level of, like, pressure and, like, living in a world where we have to, like, pay bills. And also just this desire to be like, I want to do work that lights me up, that feels aligned with my soul, that nourishes me and the people in the community around me. And what does that look like when it looked one way and then it and then it shifts? So I would love to dive into that kind of how we listen to the evolution of our work and what's wanting to come through. How do we honor that in the face of the noise and the messages I think we grow up hearing of, well, work is hard and it's not even actually supposed to be fun. So if it works if it's not broken, don't fix it or whatever. You know, all these things.

Marli Williams [: 00:11:11

Right? But you're like, it's working enough, but it's not working from my soul.

Andrea Leda [: 00:11:16

I know. And sometimes the work that we do that illuminates our soul doesn't pay the bills. And that could get into some tricky, privileged territory too because I think think there's this unfortunate mythology that when you follow your bliss, you will be bathed in financial abundance. And I think that's, a, that's dangerous territory because it presupposes that dreams happen in a vacuum, and there's no influence of other systems. There's nothing else at at play, like socioeconomic status and education and access and the color of your skin, and opportunities are not equally provided. So think it's dangerous territory to say, okay. Because I'm gonna align with my soul's work, I'm gonna be paid in, I don't know, whatever, abundance. And the reality is you might not be.

Andrea Leda [: 00:12:05

So I don't fault myself. I don't fault anyone for getting their coin. You know? So my friend Julie would say, gotta get your coin, girl. And she's not wrong. Like, you gotta make your coin. Like, you have to if I I'm at choice, I choose to be self employed. I am actually not very employable at this juncture. I would be a horrible employee.

Andrea Leda [: 00:12:25

I would question everything. It would never feel like I was getting to utilize all of my greatest gifts. Like, I would be a terrible employee. So I I am but I am a choice. I'm a choice to work for myself.

Marli Williams [: 00:12:37

Mhmm.

Andrea Leda [: 00:12:37

And with that choice comes discernment that sometimes we have to do the thing that we know is going to sell. It's not always like, that's not always the pretty part of it. Does that mean it's incongruous? No. Does that mean it's unethical? No. I think only we can know. Like, maybe it's still in my heart, but unethical? No. I think only we can know. Like, maybe it's still in my heart, but it's not the grandiose vision I had for my life.

Andrea Leda [: 00:12:54

But it's enough. And it allows me to keep myself in a free space and allows me to work for myself and to make decisions for myself. And that's maybe enough of it's worth it enough of the time. Right? I think I played in that realm for a long, long time. There was a time when the work I was doing was my soul's calling. I mean, I would've told you when I met you, I think I probably did, When I was training coaches, this is my work. Like, this is the creme de la creme. I it doesn't get any better than this.

Andrea Leda [: 00:13:25

And I really believe that. And I was my heart was in it. My soul was in it. My skills were in play. And I did make a of money. It, like, was this perfect little synchronous dance that was happening. And then it slowly stopped being that magical for me. I didn't come quite from the the family that promoted one job at all costs.

Andrea Leda [: 00:13:47

It's not supposed to be fun. Like, that wasn't really maybe my brothers got that a little bit. I don't know. I'd have to ask them. I grew up in the follow your bliss generation. So I'm the byproduct of boomers who were who are all in on this, like, Joseph Campbell crusade to follow your bliss and, like, at all costs, ensure that you never compromise your joy and your flow and your creative spirit with such a beautiful ideology. And I was so grateful growing up that, like, that was what I was handed. I felt like I had won the lottery.

Andrea Leda [: 00:14:22

Like, I get to go out and follow my bliss. And, also, I was raised by my father, who his bliss happened to be computer engineering in the nineties. So, like, his bliss also happened to coincide with, like, the largest tech boom in history. It looked like you follow your bliss and you get paid handsomely. Like, that was his MO. And and for me growing up, it looked like you follow your bliss and you make a lot of money because he did. So even now as an adult, I'm a little skeptical because I wonder, like, that was really convenient. Like, you really nailed that intersection, my friend.

Andrea Leda [: 00:14:59

Like, good on you. And also, I'm proud of him for having joy in his work and having found that and and got to promote that in our home. I think that benefited all of us, But it also meant in my career, I sometimes you know, if it's not the most joyful, Illumina, lit up thing, I can get really hard on myself for making money from it. Or, you know, like, if it's not fully aligned, I start to question all of it because that's, like, the backbone of where I come from. I'm working on new bliss and also working on tempering expectations of what that's gonna look like and how it's going to unfold for me. And and I don't really know. I took a huge risk in putting a lot of what had worked aside, but it was time. Like, it felt like the congruency that I had was chipping away.

Andrea Leda [: 00:15:49

And that's the only thing that maybe I can point to. Like, it's not just a knowing or an intuition that something else has lit up for me. I stopped feeling integral about my work. And at the end of the day, no matter how little or how much money I'm making, if my integrity isn't intact, I can't do it. I just that's, like, my own that's, like, my line in the sand. I just can't do it. And I started to feel like there are people out here who could do this better. There are people out here who should be in this space.

Andrea Leda [: 00:16:15

There are people out here who want to be in this space. I think once we acknowledge we're half heartedly in it, we have to really take a hard look at what we're doing and let someone else pick up the pieces. Because someone else will. Like, you put it down, someone is gonna pick it up. Who's gonna do it so much better than I'm doing it? Because they want to be doing it better.

Marli Williams [: 00:16:34

Mhmm. Yeah. I think it's so important to, like, again, pay attention to those moments. And we live in a world oftentimes where it's like grind it out, just power through, just push through it Mhmm. Versus this invitation to step back, to slow down, and to know, like this is the importance of like doing values work and, and knowing what your values are. Like, I'm not all in if this isn't in alignment, like, with my integrity, if I don't believe in it, I shouldn't be doing it. And then it's like, but I should believe in it. This is my work.

Marli Williams [: 00:17:07

And like, we kinda like, oh, you know, can grit our way through it versus acknowledge. And I want I wanna say this to everyone out there, no matter if, like, this is your 1st year of being a coach or an entrepreneur or speaker, or you've been doing this for 10 or 20 years, your work will evolve. And I think so many people want the answer. What's my thing? What's my keynote speech? What's my topic? What's my retreat gonna be about? What's my prog signature program? You know, all this stuff.

Andrea Leda [: 00:17:39

Yeah.

Marli Williams [: 00:17:40

And the only way we can do it is by, like, being where we are with what we have, and knowing that the work will evolve. Mhmm. But if we wait for, like, this all knowing shining light of clarity, because I think that that's the illusion of what we see other like, I see that in other people. Oh, look at how clear they are in their messaging, in their branding, in their you know, and that compare and despair versus, like, it's that external mirror versus am I looking inside? Mhmm. Or what is truly lighting me up and operating from the inside out rather than from the outside in. And the conversation I'd love to invite in is around we're in a very interesting time in history right now, the world. And we've been shown this kind of one dimension of leadership for a long, long time. And even of entrepreneurship, and making money, and this efforting, like the harder I work, the more money I make, you know.

Marli Williams [: 00:18:46

Mhmm. And I would love to explore this idea of feminine leadership and this feminine approach to being an entrepreneur, in making money, and building sustainable businesses, not just sustainable financially, but sustainable for our mental, emotional well-being, the well-being of all our communities, our families, our systems, and kind of just rewriting the story of leadership. And what that means to lead in our own life as female entrepreneurs or coaches, and what that means to lead in our community from a more kind of feminine approach and not getting caught up in the old narrative, which I've, you know, very action oriented, dominant. Like, I have to have all the answers kind of push, grind it out harder, faster, stronger, more is better to this. I've heard of, like, this idea of the soft business or the slow business, like, almost like slow cooking or whatever. You know, it's like what that looks like and what that sounds like and how we can embrace that gift and see it as a gift and see it as an invitation and opportunity of, like, how can our we did dharma school together, and I the essence of, like, your dharma is where your gift that you have to offer the world meet the need of the times. And I feel like a lot of people out there listening, like, you all have gifts to offer this world, and the world needs you to share those gifts. And that is our dharma.

Marli Williams [: 00:20:24

That is our calling, our soul's work. And for some of you, that might be what you get paid for, and some of you, it might be what you do for your friends and your family on the side, and, like, how you show up for your people. Right? So how do we do that? What does that look like?

Andrea Leda [: 00:20:41

So I hear how do we lead from the feminine is what I'm hearing. And does dharma have some insight for us around how we might do that? That's what I'm hearing. Love that. One of my favorite topics, Marlene.

Marli Williams [: 00:20:54

Nailed it. You nailed it. Let's talk about that.

Andrea Leda [: 00:20:57

It's one thing I listen for a living. It's the wildest thing. Oh, these topics are huge. These are such big. And also, they're buzzy, and they're well, they're buzzy in my reel. This is what's, like, lit up for so many of us. Right?

Marli Williams [: 00:21:10

This is what we geek out on.

Andrea Leda [: 00:21:11

Geeking out on. Yeah. And it's cool that we're geeking out on it. Because, I mean, even 10 years ago when I got started, this wasn't a part of our vernacular. This wasn't commonplace. We weren't talking about I mean, Dharma is 1000 of years old, but we weren't talking about divine leadership. We weren't talking about feminine leadership in the ways that I think we're making more commonplace today. Oh gosh.

Andrea Leda [: 00:21:32

I can only speak from my own experience. I don't wanna say I mean, that's feminine leadership. Right? I'm not gonna sit here and tell you what exactly to do it or how to express it because how could I possibly know? I can only express it because how could I possibly know? I can only talk about the parts that I'm leaning into and the bits that are really just lit up for me personally. Dharma has had a lot to do with that for sure. And Dharma was first introduced to me through Steven Cope's work. He wrote many books, many titles. My favorite of which is The Great Work of Your Life. Highly recommend it.

Andrea Leda [: 00:22:05

Anyone who's listening, run out and get a copy. And Steven runs I don't know if he still does. He used to head the Center For Extraordinary Living at Carpolo Institute in I want to say it's in New Hampshire. Correct me if I'm wrong. It could be New York. Mhmm. And he's one of our foremost living scholars today on the Bhakkava Gita. And the Gita is a book about doubt.

Andrea Leda [: 00:22:28

It's a book about doubting ourselves in the face of action. The essential question of the book is, what do I do? And the essential story of the book is remembering who you are precedes our actions. If you don't know what to do, you have to remember who you are. And who you are precedes all that we do. All that we become, all that we choose, all that we undertake is a byproduct of ourselves. And, ultimately, it's a book pointing back to our connection, to our highest good. We might call that our true self. We might call that our divine self.

Andrea Leda [: 00:22:59

We may call that our godly self. Put it in the context that works for you. Mhmm. And so dharma is the antidote to the times that we're living in, I believe. I think it has been for 1000 of years. Doctor. Jens Nielsen (twenty-three twenty three): Dharma reminds us that every single person living on the planet matters, and not just in some meta concept. Like, no, we literally matter.

Andrea Leda [: 00:23:23

We are action every single day that has ripples beyond our comprehension. It's unavoidable. We're already making impact, whether we're conscious of it or not. And so when we ask, like, how do I lead in these times? I think what most people, at least in my world, are actually asking is what do I do, and is it enough? I think that's what most people are asking. Am I enough? Is what I'm doing enough? There's no shortage of need in the world. Never has been, never will be. We take, like, the time you're living in. That's your pocket of history of a need that you get to respond to, intend to, and be in relationship to.

Andrea Leda [: 00:24:02

And there will be more need where that comes from, and there was more need where that came from. But I think we're really asking in our lifetimes three essential questions. Who Who am I? Why am I here? And how can I make a difference? I truly believe this. I mean, in the I've lost count, 10, 15000 conversations I've had in the last 10 years with people who are actively seeking like, actively, hungrily seeking answers to their life. These are the 3 questions they're asking. And dharma points to all 3. It says, well, you are true nature. You're of highest good.

Andrea Leda [: 00:24:37

You're also of this human body here to make consequential decisions and probably a ton of mistakes along the path. Mhmm. And why am I here? Because that's my favorite answer because you are. You're here because you are. And how can I make a difference? We point to what you pointed to, the intersection of the gift and the need. And and this is direct out of Steven's work. It's in the book, The Great Work of Your Life. He talks about how dharma lives at the intersection of your gifts, so your innate who you are innately, your talents, your proclivities, your skills, your ambition, your hopes, your dreams, all your boons, all your resources, all of your identity.

Andrea Leda [: 00:25:19

This is all of your gift. And where it meets, not only the need of the times, but the need of the moment. So we can enact our dharma moment to moment to moment. It's not some grandiose Sometimes it is. It's not some grandiose thing. It's at this moment, how does who I am and what I am meet the need that I'm literally facing? And it will be the most micro of actions. So I think, you know, for me, feminine leadership is about the small. It's about bringing it back to where are we literally planted.

Andrea Leda [: 00:25:53

Like, where Okay. I can't be literally planted. Where am I planted? What's my corner of the world? That's another piece of that book that just captured my whole heart. He talks about loving your small corner of the world. And that that's all we have to do, is love our small corner of the world. And I've added to it, and you have to see it as enough. And I think feminine leadership is about that both and, loving your small corner and seeing it as enough. And when we do that, we have to question scale, unnecessary scale.

Andrea Leda [: 00:26:25

Is influence equal to impact? Is my reach actually quantifiable in numbers and figures and dollars in the bank? How do you measure action? How do you measure impact? How do you measure enough? These all get put on the chopping block, as it were. And I think that that's an important first step. I think we have to start questioning where we've invested our energy. Especially if you're an entrepreneur or you're a business owner, you have been operating from more traditional scripts. It's impossible not to. We're steeped in it. We're swimming in it. We live in a society that is both inherently scarce and also runs on the ideology and the mythology of scarcity, which keeps you in this insidious loop that makes us reach for more than is actually necessary, which has us compromising our integrity and our values in the face of wanting to make better choices.

Andrea Leda [: 00:27:18

All of that has to get questioned. But I don't think we can do that if we don't know what we're leaning into instead. It's not to say the opposite of big is small. I think that's too diluted. I think that's too black and white. But how many of us are overlooking right where we are because we think that the answer to our small life is some large leap outside of us? And then I think we point to people who are doing it bigger, better than us, and we use that against ourselves. We say, see, so and so. Like, I'm not Glennon Doyle.

Andrea Leda [: 00:27:49

I'm not Brene Brown. I'm not Rachel Rogers. Who am I? Who am I to think I can do anything big, brave, and bold? I don't have a 1000000 followers. I'm not Kim Kardashian. I don't have the show. I don't have teen dollars in the bank that I can risk at any moment. How is my small life supposed to count in a big way? And I think that's the question so many of us are waking up and asking all the time. Katie Wiley (3six forty six):

Marli Williams [: 00:28:14

It's such a good question. And what's small and what's big? Again, like does that comparison to the solution that other people have it all figured out? And that, again, more is more and bigger is better kind of thing. Like, it's like this illusion and this idea of enoughness of, like, this constant chase for more money, more followers, more clients, bigger stages, more people, like, more impact, more influence. And then what? You know, it's like, what will ever be enough? And it's kinda like I remember learning about a lot of money mindset books are, you know, how you treat $1 is how you treat a $100 is how you treat a 1,010,000 and a 1,000,000. So you're like, well, I'll invest my money or I'll, you know, I'll really care about money. I'll really pay attention to my money when I have at least a $100,000 in the bank or something like that or more. And it's kinda like that with, like, our world of, like, well, when I have 10,000 followers on Instagram, then I'll really, like, care about it or put the energy into it, versus, like, the 275 people that are watching and caring. And, you know, there's that I don't know if it was a book or a article about like that, the a 1000 true fans of, like, we don't need 100 of thousands of people and 10 true fans.

Marli Williams [: 00:29:40

You know, if you really like kind of even break it down even more. And I think that question of enoughness is so powerful. Like, why women tend to more often, it seems like, get stuck in what I like to call like not enough land. And it's it's like, I don't know if it's because they don't hang out with men or it's because, like, they don't have this conversation of, like, this feeling of not enough and this bar that like, who's setting the bar? Is it us? Was it our parents? Is it society? Is it a combination? Is it just like the keeping up with the Joneses? And how do we learn to define enough for ourselves? And what is the impact that I want to make? And at the end of my days, the end of my life, what would success feel like or sound like? What are the people saying about me, about the impact that I've had? And is it are there 5 people there? Are there 50 people? Are there 500? I don't know. You know?

Andrea Leda [: 00:30:45

Yeah

Marli Williams [: 00:30:45

And what is what is your corner of the world, and what is that impact you wanna make on a daily basis in those these kind of micro ways? And what does it look like and sound like and feel like to let that be enough without diluting that? Like, it doesn't really matter.

Andrea Leda [: 00:31:04

Yeah. But even, like, I think feminine leadership takes the number off the table altogether. I think she doesn't measure a damn thing. You know, I had a mentor once say to me and I was going round and round about this for 39 and a half years. I'll give my 1st year a pass. I was so you know, I'm sure I loved myself when I was 1. 38 and a half years, I have been asking myself, am I enough? Am I enough? Am I enough? What's enough? How do I make enough of impact? And I played the one then game. We all do.

Andrea Leda [: 00:31:35

When I have the book, when I have the 6 figures, when I have the house, house, when I have the partner, when I when I when I then I then I then I and the most disappointing part of the game is that you can't win it, and you keep trying. That's the worst part. We know this.

Marli Williams [: 00:31:52

It's so true. You can't win it, and you keep we keep trying anyway.

Andrea Leda [: 00:31:57

You can't win it, and yet we keep playing it. That's the worst part. That's oh, I'm like, it's crazy making. Right? It is. It's crazy making because we keep asking, when am I gonna feel like enough? And we keep participating in games that ensure we can't ever feel like enough. And then we wonder why we're playing the game to begin with. So I think back to your point about feminine leadership, I think as a feminine leader, which we all are, male, female, it's not about gender. I don't care what gender expression, what sexuality you are, what body you walk in.

Andrea Leda [: 00:32:31

We all have it in us. Takes the number off the table and says, there's no amount of people that can show up that will make you feel like enough. It's actually not possible because that's the rig of the game. And I had a mentor say to me once, in the midst of this conundrum, she said, Andrea, you have no idea. If the day you got in line in the grocery store and you had a conversation with the clerk and they smiled, that might have been the day you fulfilled your purpose, And you will never know. The point of her story was to say, stop trying to measure your impact. It's not your business. It's none of your business.

Andrea Leda [: 00:33:07

It's like saying, I'm going to, you know, grow all these beautiful fruits. And when I have enough fruit, I will have accomplished the, oh, but now I want a fruit orchard. Oh, now I want, like, a plantation. Oh, now I wanna take over the world of my fruit trees. Now I can feel like I have enough. Just like you cannot measure your impact by any of those outcomes because you're actually not likely ever in the room for any of that outcome. You don't even know. All you have control over is how you show up.

Andrea Leda [: 00:33:37

All you have control over is how you act, which is why we point back to which is why I always point back to Dharma because it's it's directly pointing to the only thing we have any control over, which is, how do I respond to the world? How am I in response to everything I'm in relationship to? That's the only thing I can measure. And it's not to say we ignore the outcome because that's also dangerous. Right? It's not to say my the outcomes of my actions are none of my business. No. They're deeply problematic.

Marli Williams [: 00:34:11

Yeah. It's not using that as a measuring stick of our worthiness.

Andrea Leda [: 00:34:15

Right. Because it's not measurable. And I don't think you're wrong. I don't have a ton of men in my my life either. I have a few men in my life, and I've never once heard any of them talk about their lack of self worth. This isn't a topic to chore for them because they're living in male bodies. And most of these men, to be fair, are white cisgendered, heteronormative men, so they're at the top of the dominant culture food chain. And it's unfathomable to them that I don't feel like enough.

Andrea Leda [: 00:34:49

Like, it just isn't something they can comprehend. And you can't explain it. You can't say to them, well, it's for all these factors. Right? Like, that's literally not the model of the world that they have. And I think women, it's our conditioning. Conditioning is different than what we've been modeled. We've been, but we've also been modeled it. Conditioning is, behavior we absorb without conscious choice.

Andrea Leda [: 00:35:14

We just start to demonstrate this behavior. We're conditioned. We're modeled. We're taught. We're told. We're shown. And then, also, we have all these policies in place that prohibit women from feeling like enough. We take away their rights.

Andrea Leda [: 00:35:27

We take away their access to their reproductive rights. We take away their access to marry who they choose, to have money, to have power. Like, and the worst part of it is women are the most likely to tear down women at the top. Not men. It's women who are the first to go, who does she think she is? Yeah. We can't win.

Marli Williams [: 00:35:46

It's been fascinating just to see, like, women right now, like, tearing down Kamala. I'm like, woah. This is nuts. Yeah. Like, this is blowing my mind that and I really think, again, going back to this, like, the need of the times right now, and, like, this moment that we're facing in history where our rights are at stake, our lives are at stake for queer people, for women's rights, and, like, feeling like, are we going backwards and joking terrifyingly about, like, Handmaid's Tale times. And my question I'd love to explore is how do we meet the need of the times, and what do you see as the need right now in our world? And how can we all rise up to meet it again in our own small way, in our own small corners of the world. And what I love to do with this podcast is try to make it tangible and actionable. And like, here's what this looks like, and here's what this sounds like, and here's this need, and here's this kind of like invitation into our purpose, our dharma, our calling.

Marli Williams [: 00:36:57

And it it doesn't again, it has to be these, like, grandiose you might not be running for your city council, your mayor, like, office, or what can you be doing to really show up in the world? And I believe that we're all leaders in some way, and I think, again, to change the narrative of of leadership and what that looks like and allowing it to be enough, whatever that is. So what can we do?

Andrea Leda [: 00:37:24

Yeah. Well, I think there's actually a lot we can do. And I I've been tuning into these calls all week in support of Kamala Harris. And and this is, you know, asking politically what we can do, but it is political. It's all political. If you walk in the body of a woman, if you walk in the body of a queer person, if you walk in the body of a Black person, trans person, gender non binary, It's political. So, you know, I've been tuning into these calls, and I've been waiting for them to give me, like, the action list. I've just been waiting.

Andrea Leda [: 00:37:56

Like, here, tell me what to do. And it's all the same stuff. Right? You call. You vote. You organize. You I hear it. And it's somehow, like, not satisfying to me, which I'm sure I'm gonna get some comments on that. And that's fine.

Andrea Leda [: 00:38:08

Comment to me. Tell me what more to do, What else to do? What to continue doing? But I'm looking for, like, the comprehensive plan. And I think the problem with my own seeking of that is that there isn't one because the actions that we're being asked to take are going to feel like nothing. They're going to feel so small. They're going to feel so incomprehensively small in comparison to the needed hand. And I think the first thing we can do is interrupt that thinking. If you think it's too small, it's probably just the perfect size. If you think your action is too small, take it anyways.

Andrea Leda [: 00:38:45

Because you, like, you just never know. The smallest action is always going to be more powerful than the non taken it's not even a word. Non taken big action. Like, it's not going to happen. So we have to take small action.

Marli Williams [: 00:38:59

I think we wait for these, like, grandiose moments to make a difference. And these small moments are the ones that surround us every single day. And one of the things that I think about as someone who looks the way that I do, I remember going and I speak at different types of conferences and events, and this one was like some sort of like utilities management something or other. Like, I didn't think about it until I walked in the room, and half the room was wearing cowboy hats. And I was like, oh, like, not the cowboy I I'm here for a cowboy hat, but, like, meaning that this was these were people from very a more rural Mhmm. Community. They might not have met someone who looked like me, let alone have me on stage. Yeah.

Marli Williams [: 00:39:44

And I didn't go up there with my big rainbow flag. I didn't talk about gay rights.

Andrea Leda [: 00:39:50

Yeah.

Marli Williams [: 00:39:50

I just did my thing. And I talked about leadership, and I talked about community, and I talked about showing up, and I talked about listening to people who think different than you do and believe maybe different than you do. And and as members of your city council, are you listening to everybody? And just by being who I am Yep. Can again, like me living my dharma and being who I am, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, Shift someone's perception. Change someone's mind. Have someone have a different experience. I'm not in control of whether they do or not. But I'm here.

Marli Williams [: 00:40:27

You know, again, it's like, that's my moment corner of the world. And, again, to interrupt that narrative, like, I could do more. I could say more, but can I let that moment be enough? And I'll share one more conversation I had at the dinner table with this woman who I think she was talking about Christianity and Jesus and like And she said something like, yeah, you know, Jesus taught me to love love my neighbor as my and we were having this moment. I'm like, again, she might have never had a conversation with someone who looked like me. And it was a beautiful conversation, and I didn't judge her. And it didn't feel like she was judging me. We were connecting as humans in that. And it didn't feel like she was judging me.

Marli Williams [: 00:41:03

We were connecting as humans in that moment. And so again, these small little micro moments or conversations.

Andrea Leda [: 00:41:11

Yeah.

Marli Williams [: 00:41:11

That can have a ripple effect, potentially. Yeah.

Andrea Leda [: 00:41:14

And you, you know, you showed up in that room, and you took stock. And some of your judgments may have been warranted. Some may have been unwarranted. We don't know. Right? But in that moment, you had to make a choice to get up on that stage and be yourself, and risk the potentiality of harm, or slurs, or harassment, and also risk the potential of missing out on conversations, and open mindedness, and shared heartedness that maybe also got to happen. And I think we're all faced with, if you're someone who is even remotely interested in being a part of positive, sweeping change in this world, if you want to be a part of the moment that we're all living in every generation has its moment I think the 60s were as the 60s were. I mean, I think this is we are living in something unprecedented. If you don't think it affects you, think again.

Andrea Leda [: 00:42:16

1st and foremost, like, you're already on the front line, whether you want to be or not. I think we can take personal action, and I think we can take public action. And I think, as professionals, I think a lot of people who listen to your show are entrepreneurs or coaches or they work for themselves. They have some freedom in that way. So I would say you have social capital and you have public capital, and you have a duty to utilize to use that. If you are someone who walks around with any amount of privilege, we all have some privilege. Some of us are on the extreme end of the spectrum than others. If you walk around with a bank of privilege, you miss my words about that.

Andrea Leda [: 00:42:58

I have a lot of social capital. I'm fear, but I walk in the world passing as a heteronormative person. And I don't take like, that is something I have to really reckon with. I'm constantly coming out on one hand. On the other hand, I'm a bit of a chameleon, and I can take a lot more social risk. As, you know, my wife cannot. My wife presents in a much more masculine androgynous way. That's her physical identity.

Andrea Leda [: 00:43:21

And she walks in the world in a very different reality than me. And that's something we're constantly negotiating with each other in public spaces. So I have a different duty than her. I have different social capital than her. Even though we both identify as queer, the way that the world receives me, I can take a lot more chance. So I have to. Like, that's now, I'm saying have to as though I don't have choice. I'm at choice.

Andrea Leda [: 00:43:43

But my choice is also to uphold and support like demarginalization of the people who are living the most on the fringes of our society. And in order to do that, that's my integrity. Not saying something is no longer a choice. It really isn't.

Marli Williams [: 00:43:59

Mhmm.

Andrea Leda [: 00:43:59

But I think that's the first is, are you using your social capital for what it could be used for? And social capital comes through things like your resources, your voice. Where are you in your community? Do you take public stands? Do you advocate? Do you ally? Are you in solidarity? Are you aware of the way that your privilege protects you? Are you aware of the ways in which you are you really need to interrupt it? Which is the scariest work of all, especially if you're white or white passing. Our work right now looks very different than that if you're a Black woman or you're walking in the body of a person of color. So number 1 is using our social capital and interrupting any of that that we can hide behind. And I think, personally, if you're a woman and you're walking in the body of a woman, the greatest work we can do right now is to interrupt internalized scripts. And that is far harder. It's far insidious. It's gonna take more work.

Andrea Leda [: 00:44:57

That looks like taking this topic of enoughness, for example. How do we work with this topic of self worth? The first thing we do as women is we stop taking responsibility for it. I think we need to stop assuming we did this to ourselves. Like, this wasn't my doing. But I drank the Kool Aid. I must have a long time ago. Maybe I was born in it. I don't know.

Andrea Leda [: 00:45:18

It's in me. It's in my body. It's in my lens. It's in my model. I didn't put it there, but I'm operating as though it is a in a it is a way that I define myself, and I have to question that. And that's just one. Right? That's just one little -ism, one little script that we have to interrupt, especially as women. Those are big actions that I'm presenting to Yeah.

Andrea Leda [: 00:45:39

Community. But honestly, I feel that the time we're living in, that's the sign of the times we're living in. That's the call of the time that we're living in. And those are big actions, but they happen in really small ways. They do. Right? Are you hiring a business coach to help you expand your scale and reach? Or are you hiring a trauma informed coach that actually understands how to help you unpack masculine oriented, capitalistic views. They are not going in the same direction, my friends. And one may have you making less money, but not passing on generational trauma.

Andrea Leda [: 00:46:12

I think that part of feminine leadership is unhooking from the play of the individual success, we are not entitled to be successful. And if you are a white person walking around with privilege in the world, you think you are. We think it's our duty to be the most successful person in the room, and the cost of that is unbelievably huge. So that's maybe the other action. If you're a business owner, have you done the work to dismantle and interrupt all the scripts and all the isms that maintain the very thing that you get on social media to promote tearing down, but your business is rooted in it. I think that's the hard work, is really looking at all the ways in which we show up that are unconscious and making the choice to question. You don't have to change it today, but can you see it for what it is? Are you even willing to name it? It's scary work, but it is going to be salvation work for people who don't look like you and who don't get to walk in the world like you. And I think that is our duty.

Andrea Leda [: 00:47:11

Absolutely our duty.

Marli Williams [: 00:47:13

So good. The call of the times. And I think this invitation to unhook from all of these narratives, all these stories that keep us stuck from taking action. Because if we feel like what we do is never enough, then it lets us off the hook from doing anything versus this is enough. This is what I'm gonna do. This is the call I'm gonna make. This is the book I'm gonna like, this is the action I'm gonna take because it's enough. If it's never enough, we're not gonna do anything.

Marli Williams [: 00:47:43

If it's not enough, it's kinda one of those things. It's like, well, why bother? Why try? Because it's never gonna be enough.

Andrea Leda [: 00:47:50

Yeah. And that is by design. Because if it's if you don't feel like enough, and you feel like your small corner isn't big enough, and your action's too small, and you opt out, guess what? That is by design. Because especially women, when women opt out, guess what doesn't change? But guess what happens when women opt in? That's why we're so terrifying. That's why they call us witches. That's why they demonize us. That's why they were the first to have our rights stripped from us. Don't want us to have that power.

Andrea Leda [: 00:48:21

No. Because we're dangerous AF.

Marli Williams [: 00:48:23

Yeah. So it's like, watch out. I would like to invite all of you listening to the enoughness revolution. We're here. We're reminding you in this moment that you are enough, and let your actions be enough. And inviting that level of enoughness in and doing the work to unhook and unravel from these stories that we've been told that they're not the truth. They are loud. The truth is that you've always been enough.

Marli Williams [: 00:48:50

So I'm curious as we wrap up our conversation today. I I know that was that was we we gave some people some things to do in the world. Do you have any final thoughts to lead people with, and and where can people, like, find you, learn more about you, and your work in the world?

Andrea Leda [: 00:49:07

Yeah. Oh, gosh. I mean, I think this whole conversation thank you for inviting me on here. I was telling Marli, this is my first podcast appearance, whatever that means in 3 or 4 years. I opted out of a lot of things. You know, I'm I opted out social media. I opted out of speaking. I opted out of group networking.

Andrea Leda [: 00:49:27

I opted out of podcasts, not totally consciously after the last election, in a lot of ways to just be with my community and tend to my small corner. And also, I have a voice, and I have I have a conviction to use that in a more integral way. So I don't know what my final thoughts are for anybody. Thank you for listening. Thank you for letting me rant a little bit. I can get a little bit soapboxy, but, oh man, I can't help it. It's too good. I've never been one to shy away the pink elephant in the room.

Andrea Leda [: 00:49:59

It's one of my superpowers. It's one of my gifts. That's something to anyone listening. Know your gifts and shout them proudly. Especially if you're a woman, you're allowed. And someone needs it. It could just be one person next to you, but they need it. We all need each other.

Andrea Leda [: 00:50:14

It's just and that's that's the call. That's the call. That's the call. So I love that. You can find my work at bravercoach.com. You can hang out there with me. You can read some things. You can opt in to some place.

Marli Williams [: 00:50:28

Yeah. Check

Andrea Leda [: 00:50:28

There was a time when I'm sure I had a whole sales script and a funnel and all of that who's obese it. But, yeah, gone are the times of trying to promote anything unnecessarily. If you like what you heard, if I resonate with you, if this is something that you wanna be in relationship to or in a community of women who are having these conversations, come let me know. Love that. Well, thank you

Marli Williams [: 00:50:52

so much for being here, sharing your heart, love, knowledge, wisdom, passion, rants, all of it. I found something that I wanted to end with, which is a letter that you wrote to all of us that did your coach training. I don't know if you remember this. I probably don't. This is gonna be don't. So here we go. Andrea, this is for you. This is for everyone out there.

Marli Williams [: 00:51:16

In the words of Andrea and your higher self, here we go. Dear soul, I do not give you ideas you can't realize. I give them to you because you're the only one who can realize them in the exact way they're meant to be realized. There is no great question I haven't already pondered. Know how I haven't already figured out. No fear I don't see coming. So what then are you waiting for? That big idea you are sitting on is not doing any good inside your head. It wasn't granted to you to be pondered.

Marli Williams [: 00:51:52

It was granted to you to be built, created, and realized. Why you ask? Does it matter? I will give you a tiny answer because your why is a tiny question. Because. No, really. Just because. Want more? Okay. Because it is fun. It feels good.

Marli Williams [: 00:52:10

It's the pure definition of creativity. Creation to create, to actualize some essence of an idea, to something you can hold in your hands, to something you can experience with emotion, like joy, gratitude, and reverence. Because as your higher self, I selfishly want to feel these things too through you. So go now and create. Put it on paper, sculpt it, offer it, build it, make it messy. Don't get it right at first. I assure you, you can't get it right at first, or you'd miss out on things like growth, desire, and the sheer thrill when you actually do get it right. And if you get scared, remember this, fear and joy are two sides of the same coin.

Marli Williams [: 00:52:56

Just flip it over. Enlight and love your higher self. And, Andrea, Leda.

Andrea Leda [: 00:53:01

Aw, she was wise. She said some good things.

Marli Williams [: 00:53:04

That's some good things. That's some good things there. So I wanted to share that as a gift to the audience that you gave to me years years ago. And what I love about it is just, like, don't wait for the perfect moment to have it all figured out. And this is kind of coming back full circle to our conversation today of go out there and do the thing, and share your gift, and own your gift, and celebrate it and celebrate each other and lift each other up and build each other up and cheer each other on. And I mean, to me, that's feminine leadership. It's this collaborative web of, like, powerful, positive flow that if we all show up in our power, in our authenticity, if we all show up using and sharing our gifts, that is the wave of the future, and that is what is gonna change the world.

Andrea Leda [: 00:53:59

Hey, women. I'm here for that.

Marli Williams [: 00:54:01

Go out there. Change the world. Do the thing. If you love this, like this, share it with your people, leave a rate a review, go check out Andrea's amazing work in the world. Come to Baja with me. Hang out in Mexico for 6 days. We're gonna have fun. We've got some sauce available for that.

Marli Williams [: 00:54:17

So thank you all so much for listening, for tuning in, and until next time. Y'all take care. Thank you for joining us on another inspiring episode of the Marli Williams podcast. We hope you're leaving here with renewed energy and valuable insights to fuel your leadership, coaching, and speaking endeavors. I'd love to invite you to subscribe, rate, and review this podcast to help us reach more aspiring leaders and speakers like you. We have more exciting episodes and remarkable guests lined up, so make sure to tune in next time. Time. Until then, keep leading with purpose, coaching with heart, and speaking with conviction.

Marli Williams [: 00:55:00

This is Marli Williams signing off. See you next week.