From Anxiety to Empowerment: Learning to Lead in Your Financial Life -33

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Marli Williams [: 00:00:00

Hey, friends. Welcome back to the podcast where this week I will be hanging out with the amazing Hannah Chapman, who is the CEO and founder of X Squared Financial Planning. She happens to be a certified financial planner and an entrepreneurial wealth coach. And in this week's podcast, we are really exploring this idea of what does it mean to lead in your financial life. Right? This podcast is all about helping you be a better leader, speaker, facilitator, human coach in the world. And one of the things as an entrepreneur that I have found that has been one of my biggest challenges is how do I lead in the financial pieces of my business as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, and we're gonna break it all down for you. What gets in the way of that? What we can do about it? Some action steps that you can take to lead more intentionally, powerfully, and effectively in your financial life and in your business. So I can't wait to dive into this powerful conversation with you today.

Marli Williams [: 00:01:15

Let's do this. Hey, everyone. What's happening? I am super stoked to welcome you to the Marli Williams podcast, where we will explore authentic leadership, transformational facilitation, and how to create epic experiences for your audiences every single time. I am your host, Marli Williams, bringing you thought provoking insights, expert interviews, and actionable strategies to unlock your potential as a leader, facilitator, and speaker. Thank you for joining me on this journey of growth, transformation, and impact. Let's lead together. The Marli Williams podcast begins now. Let's dive in.

Marli Williams [: 00:02:05

Hey, everyone. What is happening? I would love to welcome you back to the Marli Williams podcast where I'm hanging out with my good friends today, Hannah Chapman, who is the CEO and founder of X Squared Wealth Financial Planning. She is a certified financial planner and an entrepreneurial wealth coach. Hannah, welcome to the show.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:02:29

Thank you, Marli. I apologize. That was a lot. It was like a real mouthful.

Marli Williams [: 00:02:34

I love all of it. And I think that one of the things that is such a taboo topic in our culture is money. Mhmm. And talking about money, how much we're making, how much we're not making, what we're doing with it, where it's going, and it feels really elusive, which is why I am so stoked to have this conversation with you. And since you're you're new to the podcast crew, I would love for you to have a moment just to share a little bit of your backstory and kind of what brought you to doing the work that you're doing right now. And we'll dive in today. How's that sound?

Hannah Chapman [: 00:03:16

It sounds awesome. So thank you for inviting me on talking to leaders and people who are here to lead others in any way, shape, or form is such a huge piece of my heart. And so I, like you said, I'm a certified financial planner. So you sometimes see that as CFP. It means I'm a fiduciary for my clients. I'm always and only ever helping them in the way that is right for them. That is the promise of a fiduciary, right, is that everything is for the client's best interest. And the reason I mentioned that is because like the industry itself, finances, money, all of that, right? The we talked about before the opacity of that.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:04:00

There's a lot of non transparency with finances on both sides in the financial industry with how much money we make and how much we earn and all of that. So to back up a little bit of like why I do what I do, when I was a little little girl, my two dream jobs were to be a bank teller and a teacher. Those were my 2, like, either one.

Marli Williams [: 00:04:24

Yeah. That tracks. Sure.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:04:27

And so even before that, before that was my dream, my parents were both entrepreneurs. Our family was full of small business owners, aunts, uncles, grandparents, everyone across the whole spectrum. And my family were business owners and it was not in an easy way, right? We were not well off. It was hard. Like finances were tough when I was very little. All of my clothes came from thrift stores or hand me downs from friends. We were on food stamps for quite a while. Like money was super, super tight when I was little.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:05:01

And from that, the internalized story that I had from those formative years was that money is hard to make, it's hard to hold on to, and it causes a lot of stress in our house. That was like the money story that was imprinted on me as a child. And the business did get better. It grew. My parents owned a repainting business, so they would paint people's homes inside, outside, all kinds of stuff, you know, that kind of thing. Again, really hard work. It was not easy by any means. Right.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:05:32

Still, it took years, but it grew. It was doing better. And then by the time I was in high school, the painting business was doing well enough that my dad decided he wanted to shift and open another business. And so he opened a race car parts shop. So he raced on dirt track races that, you know, I don't know how many places around the country people are familiar with that, but like, this is a dangerous hobby. It's very expensive. That was like his passion side. And so he was definitely what I would call a visionary entrepreneur.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:06:01

Like he had big dreams, big visions. He, you know, wanted to do lots of different things and we didn't ever have an actual safety net financially in our home. And so what I found out later when I went into financial planning in 2007, you know, I graduated college. I was 23 at the time, and my very first client was my mom. Shout out to the moms, right, that are like the big supporters. So she was my very first client. And when I was writing her financial plan and asking all these questions that I hadn't really asked before, that's when I found out that didn't have any savings. They didn't have any retirement savings whatsoever.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:06:42

The only thing that they had was the house that we so we had purchased a bigger house, and this was in Phoenix. It was 2007. And if anyone else lived through this time period that's listening, in 2,008 and 2,009, we had the worst recession that we've ever had in this country since the Great Depression. And some would argue that it's actually like the long term effects have been worse over time. But it was, you know, we call it the great recession for a reason, and the Phoenix area was hit especially hard in the housing market. So my parents got divorced in 2006. They still owned the house. They were trying to sell it for a while, but that was their one source of wealth and it ended up selling for not very much more than they had bought it for and built it for, you know, almost 10 years before.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:07:34

Wow. That's tough. That's really, really tough. And at the same time, so this is 2008, 2009, I'm still working in financial planning, and I'm working for a firm that is well established enough. So I was very, very fortunate that they didn't lay any of us off. They were well established right out this like really tough recession. But I was seeing and working with clients who had safety nets, who had the ability to pivot when things were really tough, working with business owners who, okay, they had to pull out of their savings in order to be able to pay their employees, but they were able to do it. And it was okay.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:08:16

They made it through and then they ended up continuing to thrive where for my parents, both of those businesses ended up pretty much going under. The racing car parts shop went under completely during that recession. And the painting business went from having many employees doing lots of work to my mom painting by herself for years. And that story, that was my family experience growing up. And when I was, again, in my twenties, my early twenties, early to mid twenties, I was seeing the contrast between, this is what happens if you don't have the foresight, if you don't take care of yourself, if you don't pay yourself first, hard times are going to roll through. The economy is going to it cycles. We have a business cycle and we go through recessions every few years. And so there's no way that you will always avoid every recession.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:09:11

And so if you're able to have the reserves, have the foresight, have pay yourself first so that when you come to a hard spot, you have the ability to pivot as a business owner in whatever way that means for that particular recession. That is how you get through. That is how you continue to do the thing that you love. Serve the people you wanna serve, and come out the other side and keep growing. Because the businesses that last through those recessions are typically the ones that clean up after as well.

Marli Williams [: 00:09:41

Right. Yeah. Because they've made it. They've made it through and built resiliency or a different customer base. They've been able to, again, like adapt and pivot and be flexible in those moments rather than just like totally collapse. Thank you for sharing that story. And I think, you know, we oftentimes teach what we most need to learn in like, I think our calling comes oftentimes from what were the maybe the challenges that we've faced in our past, in our childhood and in our youth or at some point in our life, and we're like, how can we help that not happen to other people? Or we get curious and we get we find those things that you're like, I wanna learn everything that I can about this and to help other people win and navigate this more effectively. And so, you know, I think in our conversation today, given this podcast is really, you know, it's about leadership and looking at how are we leading in our financial life and our financial world.

Marli Williams [: 00:10:46

Where do we collapse and where are we not leading in that arena? And like kind of what are some of those? It's like, I feel like 80% of money stuff is, like, mindset. Right? Where do we get stopped and blocked? And then there also is strategy. There's, like, how can we do a better job as leaders and entrepreneurs? Like you said, to set ourselves up for success for the moment and for the future. And for this, like this right now, and I'm living the life that I want. And I'm also thinking about where I'm going and knowing that I think that my journey with entrepreneurship is like, there are those moments where it's like, I'm crushing it and like money is rolling and flowing. And then there are moments and months where it's like, oh, shit. Like, I need to make an offer or I need to make some phone calls. Like, I need to generate some income because it's we do have those cycles in our business throughout maybe throughout the year, noticing, like, when are our busy months and like so I think that that's I'm curious, you know, when you're working with entrepreneurs and this idea, maybe we can start with this.

Marli Williams [: 00:12:00

Like, what do you think it means Or looks like to lead in your financial life? What does that look like? Sound like feel like? How do you help people do that?

Hannah Chapman [: 00:12:14

Such a good question. What does that mean? What does it mean to lead in your financial life? In my experience as an entrepreneur myself and in working with I mainly work with entrepreneurs and business owners as well in my work. And what I find is it's a sense of having an inner peace that you've got your own back, that it's going to be okay, that you have done the preparation that you need to do or have a plan of how you are going to do that preparation based on your actual numbers, based on knowing and accepting what's truly in front of you right now. And then from that space of, again, acceptance of feeling really grounded and rooted in what you know where you are right now, and then saying, This is the direction we're gonna go. This is the vision. This is how we get there.

Marli Williams [: 00:13:14

It really is. It's like

Hannah Chapman [: 00:13:15

a sense of peace that radiates. And that sense of leadership, that's what trickles down to your family and that's what trickles down to your employees, right, is when you know inside that you know it's gonna be okay, you've got the tools and the preparation in place, and you know you trust yourself to, like we talked about, be able to pivot to make changes when necessary, you trust yourself enough to have the resources or have the people around you who can someone like me who can talk to you about these things, like where am I with my finances right now? What is the best move for me to make at this moment, given these different parameters, but you trust yourself to make those good decisions?

Marli Williams [: 00:14:04

Yeah. I love this idea. And for everybody listening to invite yourself to consider, you know, on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being like, I feel so calm, confident and peaceful about my financial world. I know what I'm doing. I know where things are going. I know versus one is I have no clue. And the like, I have no clue land also for myself has led to stress, overwhelm, anxiety. And so when you said that word peace, I was like, oh, it's kind of like, well, what's our when you think about what's the goal when it comes to our financial life is to feel at peace with it at ease with it, And to feel in flow and to know because I guess so often, like how I grew up, it's like we always had enough, but we never talked about it.

Marli Williams [: 00:14:59

I never knew how much my parents made. I didn't know how much things cost I like, again, we it was middle class and I had clothes and had food and it was just not something that we talked about. And so it's like, I think I also carry that into my business and my life. It's like, it's just not something that I talk about, meaning, like, even, know, and as a solopreneur, it's not something I talked about to myself about, in a way of like, taking the intentional time to get to a place where I can feel it at ease and at peace with it. And so knowing that that is what leadership is, that's what it looks like or sounds like or feels like based on the work that you do with your clients. I'm curious what tends to get in the way the most for people or what are the themes? What are the patterns? What are the stories that you consistently hear from people around navigating this part of their life and their business that tends to get in the way of that inner peace.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:16:04

Yeah. Most of my clients come to me with questions. Right? So on that scale to 1 to 10, they're definitely on the lower half of that feeling readiness, feeling peace. And literally even in sales calls, people will share that, you know, when I ask, how do you feel now at the end of this conversation, they'll share that they came in really nervous, having so many questions, just feeling really, really like, I just don't even know. I don't know what I don't know. I don't know what I'm supposed to know. And by the end of the call, having a sense of, I think this is gonna be okay. Like, I haven't even really, like, done anything yet, but I feel like it's gonna be okay that we're gonna figure it out.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:16:46

And literally just that aspect, right, that, like, relaxing into, oh, I can figure this out. We're gonna get there. It's gonna be okay. That's literally the first shift. Right? If we're on a Rubik's cube and we're trying to solve the Rubik's cube, like, we got one. We got a row. We got a row done.

Marli Williams [: 00:17:05

Yeah. It's like, I'm going to be okay. I can figure this out.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:17:10

Mhmm.

Marli Williams [: 00:17:10

Or it's going to be okay. Yeah. Like having some sort of, like, trust and faith and shifting from that sense of overwhelm and feeling stressed about it to like, okay, I see that there's a path forward. Right. I can sense that there's hope for me to be able to figure this out. Right? So you're giving people that sense of of hope, insight and perspective so that they can shift from like freak out mode to a new realm of possibility. It's like what that could look like.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:17:42

Yeah. Because, again, even like right from the start, a lot of people and we've talked about this a little bit before too that we don't know. We don't know how much debt other people have. We don't know how much other people have in their, you know, 401 k or their IRA or their investment accounts. We don't know what their revenue is and what they're paying themselves. Or if we do hear someone, you know, saying they they had, you know, a 7 figure launch. Okay. Did you pay yourself from that launch? Or did it cost $999,000 to make $1,000,000, which literally happens.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:18:22

I'm not being facetious. I'm not like exaggerating at all, right? And so we don't know. People come to me and they'll say, Okay, I don't know. I've got $70,000 of credit card and personal debt from launching my business, from doing this and that, and like, I feel like I'm drowning under it and I'm not afraid of that debt. And so when I look at them and say, oh, yeah. You know, like, we move through that. You make a plan and you can do that too. Right? So when I am not afraid of the thing that is causing them so much panic and anxiety, that's one of the things that creates like, oh, you can get through this.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:19:02

Alright. Great. So that's absolutely part of it. The next part is being willing to actually look at it together. So that looks like what is your revenue? Like, let's pull a p and l, a profit and loss statement, and actually look at it. Let's look at your expenses. We're gonna look at what it takes to run your household, your personal money, and we're gonna take an actual look at what it takes to run your business. We're gonna understand all of your financial life.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:19:31

We tend to compartmentalize as entrepreneurs. We're like, I'll admit, like, I do this too. I have invested in myself. I have invested in coaching. I invest in travel when I need to. Right? And the business card gets swiped for the stuff that needs to get swiped. And I have to also be mindful, right, and make sure that, like, my expenses are within a reasonable range so that I can pay myself the amount that I need to pay myself from my business. And so one of the examples I wanted to share was, I have a client who amazing, brilliant, awesome, phenomenal woman leading an awesome business.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:20:06

I mean, she's closing in on the 7 figures of revenue mark. And when we first started working together, she wasn't paying herself regularly. So she would like take withdrawal she would like spend on her personal credit card and then be like, okay, I gotta take a withdrawal from the business to pay that. And she always felt like she was just like moving money around to different places, but not paying herself regularly on any sort of schedule and not looking into the inside of the business. Right? Like what does it actually take to run your household? What are you spending on in the business? When we started to look at these things, the anxiety that she would feel would be so strong for her that we would have to, like, slow it down. We literally had to like I shifted my process so much in such a positive way just by supporting her, by learning that, okay, when someone's feeling this much anxiety about going into their P and L statement and looking through it, we have to slow down. We have to create space for that anxiety to be there.

Marli Williams [: 00:21:10

Yeah. For anyone listening, it's like just even paying attention to yourself around, like, what comes up for you. When you think about actually looking at it, like actually looking at the credit card statements or the p and l's or the revenue, like what's coming in and what's going out. And what do you think it is? Because it's like, I know I'm like, I'm thinking about this for myself. I'm like, wow, I really don't look at those things. Like, I have an accountant. I have a bookkeeper. I'm like, they do that, but I don't like check it.

Marli Williams [: 00:21:42

I don't look at it every month. And I'm like, why aren't I making this? Like just part of what I do as a business owner, as an entrepreneur and like really knowing. It's, like, out of sight out of mind. Like, money's coming in. I have enough there. Like, things are happening, but it's, like, I don't really know what's happening. Like, I think that this, like, taking the time to, like you said, actually look at it. Why don't we do that? Why don't we do that? It's scary because you think it's because you're like, it's like a toothpick house.

Marli Williams [: 00:22:15

Right? You're like, if I look at

Hannah Chapman [: 00:22:16

it wrong, it's gonna fall over.

Marli Williams [: 00:22:18

Yeah. It's like we don't want to admit to ourselves. Maybe like the poor choices that we're making or like, oh, how am I spending like just, you know, and all of the freaking subscriptions and stuff like that? Like, how many of those am I probably not using? Well, and so you're like bringing up something that that's usually

Hannah Chapman [: 00:22:34

the first place we go, is that I don't wanna know how shitty I'm doing. I don't wanna know what what a bad job I'm doing.

Marli Williams [: 00:22:45

Yeah. And so that would be for me. I'm like, I don't

Hannah Chapman [: 00:22:50

but and that's the most common response. It's not there are some people who are totally the good, like so I'm not saying that that doesn't happen. But the vast majority of the time, it's exactly what you're saying. It's like, I am afraid of what I'm gonna see. And I'm gonna tell so this is, again, exactly in line. So the same, like that anxiety that you're feeling that like, I'm like really scared to look at this. When with this particular client, when we went through her personal spending and actually mapped out everything that was going through her personal, she was like, oh, that's it? And I was like, well, I don't know. Let's look again.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:23:26

And she's like, yeah, that's it. Oh, that's not nearly as bad as I thought. Right? She thought she was spending twice as much as she was actually like, what's actually moving through her personal side.

Marli Williams [: 00:23:36

Wow. Yeah. It's possible that it could be better than expected. But we don't know unless we look at it.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:23:43

Unless you look. And then on the business side, she also had bookkeeper CPA. Right? Other people like that say like, I don't have to look at that. It's not my not my wheelhouse, so I'm not gonna look. And then when we did when we did dive in and we started looking at, hey, what's going on? Like, personnel cost was really high and revenue wasn't keeping up with the personnel cost for a few months. And we're like, what's happening here? She was able to literally pinpoint the issue that she was like, I have not been paying attention to how many hours this person is working on a non revenue generating task. That is the leadership.

Marli Williams [: 00:24:27

Right. Yeah. It's knowing what's happening in the business and like, okay, this person's working a bunch but not bringing in money. Like, so what needs to shift or change? And it's like, it's hard to make decisions without information.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:24:40

She had no idea.

Marli Williams [: 00:24:42

And so it's like, it's part of leadership in your business is like, do I have all the information? You know? And it's like, I know the I'm like, I'm spending $200 a month on Kajabi. Am I using it to the fullest? Do I need to be spending $200 in a month on Kajabi? Like is or do I want to move everything over there? Like, am I taking the time once a month, like setting a financial date with myself. Money date. My money date and being like, what's happening? And seeing this, I think that, like, the invitation that I have for people today is like this is an invitation to step into leadership in your business and around the finances. It's like we might lead when we're on stage, when we're leading a group, when we're giving a talk, when we're giving a workshop, right? But all of this like behind the scenes stuff, it's like, where do we kind of deflect and not look at these things because of the fear of what we're going to find out and what we're going to see? And it's like knowing that the information is valuable either way. And if I'm not looking at it, it's not doing me any favors. Like, I'm not doing myself any favors by ignoring it, by avoiding it, by not looking at it. And, you know, one of the things that I remember reading, I don't know which book it was.

Marli Williams [: 00:26:00

It was like a money book. It'll come to me. I'll put it in the show notes. But I remember at one point, I had a track. I had a calendar, and I would just put in every single day, and it was just how much money came in to my business. So I would look at every single day and on a calendar, you know, if I if I sell, like, a box of stoke woods, like, $23.95. Or, like, if I sold a coaching package, if I booked or you know, and if I landed a speaking gig, I would only put the money in that, like, literally came in to the bank. Not it's in the future.

Marli Williams [: 00:26:35

It's like, this check got deposited today for $25100 or whatever. Right? And what the whole principle behind it was like, we get more of what we look for. Yes. And so it's like I'm putting intentional time and energy into tracking the money coming in. And every time it doesn't matter if it's $2,200, $2,000. I'm just saying, like, thank you. I am open to receiving more and looking at, you know, so I would do it every day. And if it was 0, and then at the end of the week, it's like, how much did I make that week? How much did I make? And there was something for me about doing it kinesthetically on a calendar with a pen and a paper like piece of paper, like having my bank account open.

Marli Williams [: 00:27:21

And it's like, okay, June 5th, like this amount. And the visual of that too was really powerful for me because I think spreadsheets can feel like there's, like, such a big disconnect. And it was like I had to find a way for me to, like, want to spend time doing this in a way that was, like, easy for me. And the invitation from her was, like, to do it every day, like, or so. From her was, like, to do it every day. Like, or so I thought that was really interesting. Yeah. I love that.

Marli Williams [: 00:27:43

You're pointing to one of the pieces. So one of my

Hannah Chapman [: 00:27:46

little mantra, one of the pieces. So one of my little mantras is that I help people learn how to save wisely, spend joyfully, and support the causes that matter to their heart generously. And so those right, like, it's so good. Like, that's what money is for.

Marli Williams [: 00:28:05

That's what money is for. Yeah. Like, and the idea I mean, and I've heard this before too, just to add on to that is like, money loves to have a job. Mhmm. So it's like, where's our money going? What are we doing with it? Why do we want you know, if we want more, why do we want it? Is it for the house? Is it the down payment? Is it a boat? Is it that trip to Bali? Like, where is it going? Charity.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:28:26

Yes. Exactly. And so what can happen, and I I mentioned that one, especially to talk about, like, the spend joyfully part because that's the one we're like, I don't know about that. But it's really powerful because when the money comes in and you are grateful for it, the energy of that. Right? And you're thank you. I'm so grateful for you to be here and to just love that and feel supported by it. That sense of, like, grounding and feeling of in support of that, what people can tend to do is even before that money actually hits the bank account, they've already mentally spent it, or they've already actually spent it. Right? And so it's like it comes in and literally out.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:29:10

So it never even, like, ages in the bank account for a moment. Yeah. I can say this from like, I have been there. Right? I have been through that phase myself where it's not safe to leave money there.

Marli Williams [: 00:29:25

I resonate with that a lot. And I've heard this idea before and I'd be curious about what your thoughts are is this idea of like the money plateau in, like, it seems like no matter how much I make, I'm always I always have the same amount in my bank account. And it's kinda like, well, I can generate it, But why aren't I saving it or investing it in something? So it's like, I mean, my ideal world is like, I want my money to make money. But again, in the world of like money, finance planning, it's like, where and how do we learn this shit? And it feels so daunting and so overwhelming, but this idea so I guess there's like 2 parts. 1 is this idea of, like, this financial or money plateau where it's like we create, like, a set point, like our our nervous system set point of, like, I know what it's like to have this much money in my bank account. And so it feels like no matter how much I bring in, this is always like the space that I hover in. Right? And it's like, how do we raise our capacity to receive energetically and our nervous system to feel like, what would it feel like to have $100,000 in my savings account? What would it feel like to have $200,000 in my savings account when like $20,000 in my savings account? Okay. Like, I am very familiar with that, but it's like, why does that happen? And, like, how do we raise our ability to, like again, I'm pretty decent at generating it.

Marli Williams [: 00:30:54

But then sometimes I'm like, where the fuck did it all go? I'm like, what? So if you can share your insights, I'm all ears.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:31:04

Yes. You got your pen. Yes. The financial set point. This is is so real, and it truly is. It's like the way that I hear people describe it to me when they're like, I'm ready to get out of this little cycle that I'm in is it comes in and it goes out. And I'll save some and then something happens and it has to all go out again. And then I'll get it back going, and then the kid breaks their arm and it goes back out again or, you know, like, there's this constant, like, I've got it and then it all has to go.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:31:34

And then I've got it and it all has to go. And that tends to be a cycle that we're in that is not to say that shit doesn't happen. Right? Your tired might blow. Your radiator might blow. You know, like, things happen that we have to do. Right? And that's fine. But there's an energy to that that I find that is still it does have to do with this being joyful and grateful for what's coming in and then being joyful and grateful for what you're spending. Mhmm.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:32:09

There's a connection there. There's an energetic connection that when you're pissed off that your money is going out, there's gonna be a lot of opportunities for you to be pissed off about your money going out. Like, whatever the energetic is of that, it is truly real. Like it is real. That when we learn how to be in full gratitude of receiving what we're receiving, We are also it's all tied in here. We're also paying attention to it. Mhmm. Like you're saying, like, you're writing it down when it comes that you're paying attention to it.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:32:47

You're giving it attention. You're giving it love. And then when we are also attentive on the out, when we are joyful and grateful when it goes out, we are also paying more attention. And so when I pay my mortgage, I'm like, thank you. I love it. I love living in my beautiful house, in my safe home where my kids can run around and ride their bikes out front. I love paying for my car every month. That is like my gift to myself.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:33:17

Like, yes, I'm so happy to pay for that. I love when I pay for a mentor and that money goes out and I send it with love, and I'm so excited to be able to learn from that person. Parking tickets, like those are the ones. Right? Like the stuff that we think of as shitty. It's like, oh, thank you. My car had a safe place to be, and I was there a little bit too long. Thank you for giving me that space for a little bit longer than I should have had it. And then I drove away, and we're good.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:33:41

But to get to that point where you are grateful and joyful, right? You have to go to the dentist and they find something and you're gonna have to work on it. Alright. Thank you. I'm so so glad that we're gonna fix this now and it's not gonna be a bigger issue down the road. That energy of paying attention, it makes you more thoughtful about the things that go out. And so in that sense, that's where if you're about to spend your money on something that doesn't feel aligned, you notice that more than you would when you were just not paying attention, not caring. When you're blocking or numbing, right, when all of our numbing behaviors that we can do, you know, when emotionally, whether that's scrolling or drinking or smoking weed or whatever it is, like, when you're using those as numbing behaviors, we can understand that when it's like stress, but we do that financially too. We financially numb by not looking.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:34:40

Right. So when we open ourselves up to look, to see it, to be aware of what's flowing in and what's flowing out, we start to naturally gravitate to make choices that feel better, that keep our nervous system in a state of regulation more often. When those things do pop up, a new tire or a 4, okay, you actually have more money in your savings account now because you were paying attention for the last several months, and it's actually okay. It's $1,000 for those 4 tires. Great. I've got plenty.

Marli Williams [: 00:35:13

Yeah. I think that this point is so important. Right? So it's one thing to be grateful for the money coming in. I think that's like that's easier. And it's still like, can I create more intention and attention of, like, thank you? Thank you. You know, it's like feel like that's the easier one. I think this, like, when I am paying my rent or my mortgage or my car payment or dinner that out or whatever it is. Like, I'm so happy and grateful that I have the safe house, that I have this beautiful car, that I we had this beautiful meal together, that we went on this trip or, you know, we go to pay our credit card Williams it may be more than what we thought.

Marli Williams [: 00:35:54

It's like, oh, we just got back from this trip. Okay. Like, we'll have memories that will last us a lifetime. And it's like, I'm so happy and grateful that I am resource enough to pay this. And I think that this level of leadership and our financial journey around paying attention with intention and with gratitude in both directions. Not just paying attention to what's coming in and not looking at what's going out. Or it's like when when it's going out, we're like, oh, but gradually lead paying our mortgage or begrudgingly like paying our credit card bill or in like, I think energetically that does make us like you said, I think it creates a level of mindfulness. And I think that that's what gets to happen when we start to look at it and pay attention to it.

Marli Williams [: 00:36:47

I'm super curious. And we, we talked about this earlier around this idea of transparency and money as it connects to leadership and entrepreneurship and why you feel like this is I mean, out of all the topics. Right? Like sex, drugs, rock and roll, politics, like all these things. I feel like money is, like, the most taboo topic ever. Like, you are, like, out of the party. You are not gonna walk up to somebody and be like, can you tell me how much you make? Mhmm. How much did that car cost? How much is your house? Like, whatever. We don't ask that.

Marli Williams [: 00:37:25

We don't talk about this shit. Right? How much money do you have in retirement? Where are you investing right now? Like, how much money do you have in stocks? Like, these are questions that like are so off the table that I think creates this like, we're holding on for dear life. We're not talking about it. We have all this shame and all the secrecy, even transparency in relationships. And I'm curious, like, because you're in this world, 1, why you think that is? And then, like, 2, what we can do about it to, like, break this stigma that, like, talking about money is this terrible thing.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:38:05

Oh, my gosh. Okay. So you're hitting on one of my deepest, like, I feel it in my bones, like, how important this topic is, how important it is for us to talk about money more clearly, more openly. And one of the reasons is that I mean, we're this is actually a very cultural phenomenon. There are cultures where this is not the case, where money is not taboo. I had a chat once with a woman who is from Sri Lanka, and she was like, that is not a thing in Sri Lanka. It's a very different culture, just in general. She is from a culture where money is not a taboo subject.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:38:49

And so I want to, like, first open up that lens that this is a cultural phenomenon that we have created in the US, maybe in the west in general, but Western cultures, yeah, there's this huge taboo on talking about money. And what it does is it culturally, I feel like it allows all of the wealth disparity that we actually have. Like that's a big driver of it is the fact that we don't have transparency. And one of the reasons there are people that are being, you know, left behind and pen people at the top that have 95% of the wealth because we don't see it. Because we don't we don't see it for what it truly is. So I think this transparency is not just I mean, it's it's a microcosm and a macrocosm, especially in the United States right now, culturally. So beyond that, we do take that societal macrocosm, right? So we hear those messages from the top of don't tell your coworkers how much money you make. Why? Why not? Because the company doesn't want you to know that, you know, the person that started this year in a job seemed like lower than you has a higher salary.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:40:04

They don't want you to know that. Right. Right? Because that affects the company's bottom line if everybody knows and there's full paid transparency. Right? So it's not like it's just something that happens in our households. This is a societal level issue. Mhmm. And so if you're not allowed to talk about how much money you make with your coworkers or, you know, you're not allowed to talk about how much you're spending on your mortgage or how much you have in retirement that starts to filter in to our children's psyches as well. And so again, this has been going on for generations.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:40:42

And so now it's not just a societal story for right now, but it's also a generational trauma that we have experienced. That to what you mentioned before. Right? Like, it wasn't talked about. People say we have enough. Right? We're comfortable. Like, what does that mean? Or the other thing is that this is a very like I talked about my story as a child. As a 5 year old and a 4 year old, you don't know what money is, but you know what security and safety feel like. And if it's not there, you notice the lack of that.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:41:13

Yeah. You notice that lack of financial security. Some people will say my parents hid it from me so well.

Marli Williams [: 00:41:21

They didn't feel that lack of security, but, like, maybe they didn't have a lot, but they were taken care of and they had what they needed, but they didn't really know the level of struggle that was happening. And, yeah, it's so interesting these patterns. And, you know, I think about this like my uncle is a retired accountant and I know he has investments in stocks and like, it's like, I want you to teach me these things. Like, why aren't we passing that on? Or it's like, Yeah, I'll give you 10 ks and let's invest it in something. Like, let's find a stat. Like, let let's do this together. And I'm I'm such a kinesthetic learner that it's like, I could read financial books or I can study these concepts intellectually or whatever, but it's like, I actually have to like, can we open the website? Like, how do I take this money and put it into a stock? I have no fucking clue to that, you know, And what's the smart one to do it? And it's like there are these people that 5% of the people have 95% of the wealth. It feels elusive.

Marli Williams [: 00:42:23

It feels confusing. It feels overwhelming. Like, where do I even begin? Like, I went to, this retreat in Bali, this fire movement, this, like, financial investment retire early thing. And I was meeting people in their thirties who were essentially financially free, like meaning that their money was making enough dividends every month, like whether it was real estate, stocks, whatever, like that, they would not have to work ever again. And I'm like, yes. I say what? I mean, I never even heard such a thing. And I'm like, tell me more. Like, that sounds great.

Marli Williams [: 00:42:59

And it's just like there is financial education out there. And I think, like, if you're not taught it, you really have to seek it out and rewrite some old narratives and old patterns and old stories. Again, knowing like 80% of it is mindset, 20% is the strategy of, in my opinion, I don't know if you

Hannah Chapman [: 00:43:19

I agree. I agree with that. And at the same time, so there's nuance to that, because we can also do all the mindset work possible. But if we don't know how to apply it, it doesn't land, it doesn't stick, it doesn't translate. I have a client that literally that was her thing. She's like, I have done so much work around this. Like, I feel like I've done all the work I could possibly do on the money net side, and it's still not fucking working. Where where is the money? Or why don't I feel why don't I feel safer? Why don't I feel this sense of peace and safety when I've done all of this mindset work? And it's because she's still like exactly what you were just saying.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:44:06

It's like there's still so many question marks about how do I actually do it? How do I actually implement? Right.

Marli Williams [: 00:44:14

Alright. How do I actually do this thing? And so, I mean, part of leadership is taking the time to figure it out. Knowing there are people like you, there's books, there's resources, there's YouTube, you know, it's like, there's anything that we want to learn. It is out there. And I think it's like, what would you say as we start to wrap up would be like one first step for people to take if they're wanting to take more of a leadership role in this part of their life? Like, what would be one tangible action step that we can give people to do today that would start to shift their relationship

Hannah Chapman [: 00:44:56

with money? The first step that I take people through, and I think it's one of the most important, is to I call it discovery, right? Is to actually look like we were talking about, we spent a lot of time on that today. Go and look. Look at what's where. And I'm gonna add another little piece here. Another thing I see a lot of people do that feel like they don't have enough in their checking or they feel like they're treading water. I can't tell you how many times that I have actually seen people who squirrel I call them squirreling. They're squirreling. They have money in, like, 10 different accounts, and they'll have, like, 500 here and 1700 there and 6000 over there and some 35 over here, literally literally accounts everywhere.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:45:46

I call that manufactured scarcity. They're creating a feeling because they're it's not in the checking. So they feel like they don't have it. So they feel like they're constantly, like, gotta make more. And then they'll, like, squirrel it. You know, they have little like horns that are going everywhere.

Marli Williams [: 00:46:01

Interesting.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:46:02

And it can be a lot of money. Like 40, 50, 70 I've seen, like, lots of money in this way where people, when we look at it all together, they're like, okay. I see now. Again, this is that thing where you're like, I don't wanna see how shitty this looks. No. It actually might not be. If you look at everything and see the totality of your financial picture, you might actually be pleasantly surprised. And if you do know, if you know, like, nope, I've got 3 accounts and I know exactly what's in all of them, that's where the next step is what's going out.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:46:43

Actually take an accounting of, like, look at it. Look at your debit card. I know, like, I don't use cash anymore. I can look at my list of transactions on all of my cards.

Marli Williams [: 00:46:53

Yep. No. Where is it going? Yeah. So our invitation for you is to make a date with yourself, grab your favorite glass of kombucha, wine, tea, whatever it is, coffee. And how can this be, you know, bring this into awareness, creating whether it's a weekly or monthly date with yourself to sit down and look at what's coming in, what's going out, and how can I really take a again, the invitation is to take a leadership role? Like, if we're leading in our companies, in our business, in our relationships, or whatever family, it's like, where can we step it up? So this is like a, we're not calling you out. We're calling you up. I'm calling myself up to say, look at this stuff. Make it a priority.

Marli Williams [: 00:47:45

And again, so, like, with this intention coming full circle, I love this idea of when we do this, how can that help us increase the sense of peace and calm and knowing instead of this out of sight, out of my land, it's like, I know what's coming in. I know what's going out and I can be grateful in both directions. So, Hannah, thank you for sharing your knowledge, your heart, your love, your energy, your wisdom with the crew today. I always like to ask this question if there's any final thoughts that you would like to leave people with. And then where can people, like, find you, learn more about you, your work in the world and all that?

Hannah Chapman [: 00:48:29

Yeah. The final thought that is always it's so strong on my heart is that there is enough, and there's more than enough. There is no shortage. Nature is abundant. Money is abundant. And if we tap into that feeling of like, there is enough, we start to see the opportunities for that to be true.

Marli Williams [: 00:48:52

Yeah, what a beautiful shift in perspective in a world that is so full of scarcity, and lack to say like, I, you know, one of my kind of mantras is like, I'm always taken care of.

Marli Williams [: 00:49:06

And how can I be grateful for what I have and strive for greatness? Meaning like, how can I look at what I have and be so grateful possibility, from a place of abundance possibility from a place of abundance from a place of joy and wonder and curiosity and like, what a beautiful, beautiful, like, calming and reminder of like, there is enough?

Hannah Chapman [: 00:49:37

Yes. And as far as like, where people can find me. So I have several websites, I have a couple of different businesses, and they're all easily found at hannahrchapman.com. That's hannahrchapman.com. And then you can also find me on my X Squared Wealth Planning website, which is x and then the numeral 2, wealthplanning.com. And I invite everyone. So when I talked about discovery, my freebie that I've had for a long time, it's actually the first step of the process that I actually take my clients through. So this is I'm literally, you know, giving you a piece of my process, is to discover what it is.

Hannah Chapman [: 00:50:22

I call it light up your desires and to bring light to the things that you want to create, the things that you wanna experience that are maybe different from what you're experiencing right now, what you want to experience as your legacy, what you want your kids to experience what you want for your business. So it's a beautiful list of journaling prompts that really gets your mind into again, that set that place of what do I actually desire to feel and experience? How do I wanna feel while I'm doing this? And give yourself a little bit of space to dream about what that looks like. And you can request that on my website super easily. You'll get an email back with that PDF so you can fill it out. I love that. Beautiful.

Marli Williams [: 00:51:09

I mean, and I think to that end, it's like getting really clear on what is it that you want? What is success look like and sound like and feel like for you? And instead of like chasing a ladder that's, you know, climbing up a mountain, that's not the mountain that you want to be climbing. It's like, okay, this is what I truly want. This is the life that I want to build and create. And getting super clear on what that looks like so that you can know again, more money for what purpose or, you know, like what do I want to create? So check that out for sure. Great offering. And thank you for your, again, your heart, your knowledge, your wisdom. Thank you for doing the work that you do, helping us break through to the other side of really this, like, avoidance space, like not wanting to look at it to, again, shining the light in these places that we tend to avoid. And that is our call to action for those of you listening today is look at your money.

Marli Williams [: 00:52:08

Look at it. What's coming in? What's going out? And how can you bring joy and wonder and curiosity instead of the shame and the judgment and the I'm not doing a good job space to that conversation and to that money date with yourself. So thank you again, Hannah, and thank you all for listening, for tuning in. Feel free to share your golden nuggets with me. What'd you take away? Did you do the actions? I love hearing from you all, and this resonated with you. Love it, like it, share it, send it to a friend. We love you so much. Until next time.

Marli Williams [: 00:52:44

Take care. Peace. Thank you for joining us on another inspiring episode of the Marli Williams podcast. We hope you're leaving here with renewed energy and valuable insights to fuel your leadership, coaching, and speaking speaking endeavors. I'd love to invite you to subscribe, rate, and review this podcast to help us reach more aspiring leaders and speakers like you. We have more exciting episodes and remarkable guests lined up, so make sure to tune in next time. Until then, keep leading with purpose, coaching with heart, and speaking with conviction. This is Marli Williams signing off.

Marli Williams [: 00:53:25

See you next week.