Breaking the Habit of People Pleasing -49

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Marli Williams [: 00:00:04

Well, hey, everyone. What is happening? Welcome back to the Marli Williams Podcast where this week, we are diving into a topic that is on my heart, on my mind, often as a recovering people pleaser. This week, I will be hanging out with my good friend, Robynne Weaver, who is an expert in helping people break the habit of people pleasing. And we dive into the cost of people pleasing, the impact it has on our well-being, on our relationships. And Robynne gives us some really tangible tips and tools and takeaways so that we can break this habit of people pleasing to be better partners, parents, and people in our lives, living more authentically and learning that it is safe to choose ourself over and over and over again. I can't wait to dive into this powerful conversation. Let's do this. Hey, everyone.

Marli Williams [: 00:01:11

What's happening? I am super stoked to welcome you to the Marli Williams Podcast, where we will explore authentic leadership, transformational facilitation, and how to create epic experiences for your audiences every single time. I am your host, Marli Williams, bringing you thought provoking insights, expert interviews, and actionable strategies to unlock your potential as a leader, facilitator, and speaker. Thank you for joining me on this journey of growth, transformation, and impact. Let's lead together. The Marli Williams Podcast begins now. Let's dive in. For this week, I get to hang out with one of my favorite new people, Robynne Weaver, who is a phenomenal change coach who really helps professionals navigate the changes and transitions that are inevitable in our life, in our careers, and really do that from a place of joy and helping them live a life that is in alignment with what they really want. So, Robynne, thank you so much for being here today.

Marli Williams [: 00:02:25

I'm super stoked to have you.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:02:26

Thank you so much, Marli. That was such a lovely introduction.

Marli Williams [: 00:02:29

I'm so excited to talk to you today about our topic, which is something that you are an expert in around breaking the habit of people pleasing and as a recovering people pleaser myself. The first time I heard you say this phrase breaking the habit of people pleasing. It struck me as like, wow, it's a habit. And I don't think I ever heard it said in that way before. And naming it as a habit, seeing it as a habit and seeing it as like, well, we can shift our habits. Because it's like a habit is just something that we do automatically kind of unconsciously without thinking we're even doing it. And so I would love for you to just start our conversation today maybe sharing a little bit of your story around how you came to really dive deep into this work around people pleasing and what's lighting you up the most about kind of doing this work with people and helping them break this habit?

Robynne Weaver [: 00:03:42

Yeah, absolutely. Great question. Thank you, Marli. And thank you for sharing that you are a recovering people pleaser. I know many of us are.

Marli Williams [: 00:03:51

Self proclaimed.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:03:53

Yeah. Absolutely. So I think, you know, the fact that we are inclined to people, please, is totally normal, and we need to drop the guilt and the shame around it. If we're a people pleaser, it means that we want to create good outcomes. We want what's best for everyone. We're trying to show up and do good in the world. And who doesn't want that? The problem becomes when we're doing it at our own expense. And unfortunately, many of us are socialized to be that way, especially, women.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:04:23

And we're not only socialized to be that way in the workforce, we're socialized to be that way in our family systems and in our relational dynamics with our partners. So what's really been lining me up about doing this work of breaking the habit of people pleasing is that I'm learning so much about how we people please in multiple areas of our lives.

Marli Williams [: 00:04:43

Mhmm.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:04:43

For me, I came from the meeting and events industry. So I was produced, selling and producing multimillion dollar events for the world's top brands globally. And it was such a high stakes and high pressure field. And in that field, we are taught to always lead with a smiling face, that the show must go on, that we have to keep all of the conflict and all of the mess behind the scenes.

Marli Williams [: 00:05:09

Mhmm.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:05:10

And what that creates is a dynamic of really heavy masking, and really heavy people pleasing. We're constantly trying to appease our clients, appease our teams, appease our bosses. And it's something that comes up again and again with many of the clients that I work with now as a private coach. Yeah. So that's kinda how I got started.

Marli Williams [: 00:05:32

It's so fascinating. Right? And like you said, it's normal to people please, and I really appreciate that perspective. So it's not coming at this angle of, like, making anybody wrong...

Robynne Weaver [: 00:05:43

Right.

Marli Williams [: 00:05:44

About being a people pleaser and normalizing that that is actually how we've been conditioned, you know, and especially in certain, like, you know, high performing environments where there is this expectation that we bend over backwards, we do whatever it takes, you know, and just this, like, constant need to appease and please other people. And like you said, it comes from a good place. Like, we wanna do a good job. We wanna make our clients or our customers happy. We want to make our partners happy. All these things. Like, I think that conditional like, we are conditioned to be people pleasers. And so, you know, looking at it from that lens and then seeing it as a habit of, like, oh, what else is possible here?

Robynne Weaver [: 00:06:34

Yeah.

Marli Williams [: 00:06:34

And I remember kind of when I was diving into this realization of, like, the cost of my people pleasing. At first, it was like, well, I'm either a people pleaser, or I'm an asshole. Like, there was like no in between. Because I like I was like, but I'm just being a good person.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:06:53

Right.

Marli Williams [: 00:06:54

I'm just I'm doing what I think is right and not seeing the motive of, like, I'm doing this so that they think I'm a good person. Yeah. Versus, am I doing this as a genuine desire, or am I doing it to get something from someone?

Robynne Weaver [: 00:07:16

Oh. Yeah. In an effort to create ideal conditions and avoid unpleasant outcomes, you know, people pleasers get caught up. We caught up we get caught up in managing the feelings, the thoughts, the behaviors of others. And in its best manifestation, that could look like someone who holds the family dynamic together, holds the team together, holds the group together. But in its worst manifestation, it can look like a manipulation. It can look like getting others to do, to think, to say what you want for the outcome you believe is best. However altruistic your motives might be, you know, oftentimes, we just want what we believe is best for the other person or for the majority.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:07:57

When we try to control others, we only hurt ourselves and the other person. We hurt ourselves by spinning our wheels. We try to control something that we can't, which is another person. We don't we obviously can only control ourselves, our own thoughts, behaviors, actions. And we really hurt others by denying them the right to be wholly responsible for themselves. You know, that part of life where it's a mix of good and bad outcomes, and everybody's learning through trial and error? When we over people, please, we can deny others the right to their full human experience and their full learning.

Marli Williams [: 00:08:33

It's so true. You're reminding me of so many, like you know, I think that this is one of the biggest lessons that I've had to learn, like, in in a relationship, as a business owner, you know, just this, like, tendency to kind of bend over backwards. And it was like I wanted to control. I mean, it it really is a desire to control other people. And like you said, the outcomes of that interaction or of that experience. And I remember I had a mentor one time say straight up to me. She said, Marli, you're a liar.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:09:07

Yeah.

Marli Williams [: 00:09:08

She said, people pleasing is the highest form of lying. Yeah. Because it's inauthentic. It's like it is this, you know, like you said, in in its worst form, it's it's it's an a manipulation of, like, I'm trying to control other people's experience of me, their reactions, their response Mhmm. Instead of, like you said, allowing them to have their own experience because my biggest fear was letting other people down. Right. Disappointing them. So it was like, what do I have to do to get them to, like, be okay, be happy, be satisfied? You know, it's like and then it's like twisting myself into a giant pretzel and then feeling so out of alignment, so disconnected from myself.

Marli Williams [: 00:09:59

And that is often you know, when I have lost myself in relationships, it's like this, who do I need to be in order to be loved? And it was like my desire to be liked and loved overrode everything. It overrode my desire to be authentic. Wow. So it was just this like, woah. This is a huge realization of like, well, that I'm not actually loved for me. I'm loved for this version of me that I think that they want me to be. It was like, woah. Yeah.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:10:33

It's not even me. They don't even know the real me.

Marli Williams [: 00:10:36

Right. Because, again, it's such a habit and almost unconscious that it took a lot of self reflection and unraveling to realize that. So I'm curious as you work with people to help unpack this. Mhmm. Where do you begin? Where do you begin that journey with people, and how do you help people kind of like untangle from this habit and start to gain awareness around essentially the cost and the impact that this has in their life?

Robynne Weaver [: 00:11:10

I'm soglad you asked because what I would love to share today is, like, some tangible action steps that people can start to to take.

Marli Williams [: 00:11:17

We love that. We love tangible tools here 1 we're here for you.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:11:20

And I love that you, you know, shared not just how this showed up for you professionally, but how this also showed up for you personally, and in relational dynamics with partners. And, and, you know, the truth is, by not letting other people make their own choices struggle, sometimes fail, We're denying them the right to grow. And we're denying that in ourselves, too. Like you acknowledged, you weren't able to show up authentically. You weren't able to really stand in your power. You were trying to be this version that you thought was the most worthy and the most lovable to someone else. The thing that happens, you know, I know you and I both just read Mel Robbins' Let Them Theory. The thing that happens is when we really let them, right? The other person may not grow in the direction that you wanted.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:12:12

Yeah. And that's okay. Or whatever outcome you were trying to create, that may not have been the best outcome. But I think a big part of this is not arguing with reality, and really trust that's what meant what is meant for you will not miss you.

Marli Williams [: 00:12:29

Yeah. I love that quote so much. And, you know, I think that that I think how I grew up was kind of this like, I mean, the learning the people pleasing, but it was also like avoid conflict at all costs. So there was this fear that being authentic, standing in my power, saying no would lead to a disconnection. You know, we are wired for human connection, and we're wired for belonging. And it's actually like it is how we survived. So it actually our our amygdala and our fight or flight response is activated. That's like, if I see this thing and my biggest fear is I will be cut off from love, connection, belonging, community, relationship, then it's kind of like it's like, what do I need to do to maintain and that but what I had to realize is like, it's like maintaining the illusion of connection.

Marli Williams [: 00:13:30

Wow. Because it's not real connection. It's the illusion of connection. If I just do all these things and I say I say all the right things and I give you all this money and I'm like, I all the the things that I think you need or want from me, then I'll avoid conflict and avoid pain. And, really, what that did was, like, cause more conflict ultimately and more pain. And so I think it's realizing there's a cost to it. Because when we realize there's a cost to it, then I think it's like, when do we because change is uncomfortable and hard. So if we have a habit, there has to be an impact or a cost of, like, that's great enough or high enough to want to change that habit.

Marli Williams [: 00:14:16

It's like, oh, and it's like, I realized in a pretty significant way the cost of my people pleasing. That was my catalyst to shift it, to say, like, it's kinda what got you here won't get you there. I was like, this is this behavior has kept you, quote, unquote, safe for this long, but it's not going to, you know, get you to where you wanna go with it, which is more authenticity, deeper intimacy, better relationships in friendship, and in love that were real. Not, again, the illusion of connection, but real connection means sometimes choosing yourself, saying how you feel, asking for what you need, saying no. You know? So it was just really rewriting this whole narrative of, like, how do I wanna show up in the world more wholeheartedly and authentically versus who do you need me to be and dancing in that cycle of people pleasing.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:15:18

And how interesting is it that while you were trying to maintain this connection that you were so afraid of losing, you were really creating such a disconnection between your relationship with yourself

Marli Williams [: 00:15:31

Mhmm.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:15:31

Because you weren't able to show up authentically, and you weren't able to be rooted in self love, which is, if you don't have that, you don't have anything.

Marli Williams [: 00:15:40

Juniper I think that that's a huge piece of this puzzle. Juniper Mhmm. Juniper It's like when I truly love myself, and I'm making decisions from that place, then you know, the things that the people will fall away, the things will fall away, and I will still be okay if that relationship ends. If that friend doesn't call me back, if this person is mad at me, I still have my own back. It was giving my power away, really, versus saying, like, I have a say And cultivating that, I think that's really, like, I think a huge piece of the puzzle for breaking this, the habit of people pleasing is cultivating that strong sense of self and self love and self compassion.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:16:26

Yeah. Absolutely. I think a great starting point for people who want to start doing this work on themselves is really understanding and maybe writing down some examples of your people pleasing behaviors, understanding why we people please, and just getting out of your own way, drop the shame around it. We talked about that, that shame is not going to be helpful in this process. So just accept that this is a normal thing that mostly everyone does.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:16:53

Put that shame to the side. But really ask yourself, what beliefs about yourself are contributing to your people pleasing behaviors? And for some people, that might be a really extreme case of trauma. And if that's the case, if you find yourself going into fawning, freezing, flight, if that's the case, could you benefit from the help of working with a mental health provider, and really unpacking what's there so that you can have more freedom and move forward autonomously as an adult.

Marli Williams [: 00:17:24

Yeah.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:17:25

But for most of us, a lot of it is the socialized and habituated ways in which we've been taught to be a good student, a good daughter or son, a good, you know, worker, a good spouse, a good whatever, x y z. And a lot of us end up looking around saying, I've checked all the boxes. I've been good, good, good, good, good. This isn't enough. I'm feeling empty. I'm feeling hollow. I'm not filling my own cup first. So one of the places that I love to start with clients is identifying the areas in your life where you are people pleasing, and identifying who you tend to people please with most.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:18:09

It's different for all of us. I've been sending surveys out to a sample group. And in that group, 70% of my respondents said that they are recovery people pleasers. And when I saw that data point, I was so stoked because I was like, yes, they're doing the work. They're aware. They're trying. You know? And 23% said, hey, I'm still a people pleaser. I am actively in this mode.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:18:37

Please help me. And a small percentage said, no, I don't have this problem. I'm neither a people pleaser nor a recovering people pleaser. And to those people, I say all power to you, but they are definitely definitely the minority. Yeah. So just some interesting data points to share is that, 94% of respondents tend to people pleased the most with their immediate family. Mhmm. And that makes a lot of sense, because some of the people who kinda taught us how to be in the world, and those are the people that we learned to want to see love metered back at us from.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:19:13

Right. A really, really interesting data point was that about 70% of my respondents, people please with their bosses, their colleagues, their clients, so professionally, and the exact same percentage with their significant other, their spouse, or love interest, someone they're dating. Wow. I thought that was really interesting.

Marli Williams [: 00:19:38

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it makes sense, like the, you know, so much of us, like the people pleasing with our immediate family. I think when we're shifting, we're growing, we're evolving, we're changing. Sometimes, like, the hardest place to change is, like, the place that we grew up and that the dynamics that we've that have been kind of set of like, this is just how it is and this is just how we interact and knowing, like, when you go back into those environments, how hard it can be to like to shift that habit. Right. Depending on our environment.

Marli Williams [: 00:20:12

You know? And, you know, what's interesting about the relationship piece is, you know, I've had relationships in the past where, like, it didn't feel safe to say no. Mhmm. Or like or in a workplace environment, it's like, am I allowed like, is there a culture here that allows people to set a boundary to say, actually, you know, like, oh, can you take on this other project? And to say, like, actually, I have a lot on my plate, and I'm working with this other client, and I don't have the bandwidth to do an exceptional job on this part, or is there a culture where you have to say yes to everything and then end up working 80 hours a week? Like, what's the culture around yes and no and people you know? And then what's the the culture of your relational dynamic as well?

Robynne Weaver [: 00:21:05

Yeah. There needs to be a certain level of safety there, and it can be scary to try to be the first person to set that level, to say, hey. Actually, I need to set this boundary so that I can show up as my best self tomorrow. I need to set this boundary so that I can be well rested in time for this big pitch. I need to set this boundary because prioritizing time with my family is critically important.

Marli Williams [: 00:21:29

Lindsey Horvath Why do you think people don't do that?

Robynne Weaver [: 00:21:32

Lindsey Horvath You know, it's so funny that you asked that because so many of my clients who I work with who struggle with this a lot professionally, they don't do it because it's not an example that their manager or boss is setting for them. And I think of this time, once I was in a situation where I was really, really, really ill, really, really sick. And I needed to be in a big meeting. It was a meeting that 70 or 80 people were gonna be in with this with our CEO. And my good friend at the time, who is an amazing, amazing, and heart centered person, one of my dearest, closest friends, She knew I was so sick, and she asked me to still be in the call. And I was like, on the floor of my bathroom, like it was not okay. Yeah. And I remember thinking, why is she asking me to do this? And I realized, oh, because this is how she treats herself.

Marli Williams [: 00:22:30

Yeah. She would ask herself.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:22:32

Yes.

Marli Williams [: 00:22:32

She would be there.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:22:33

This is how she treats herself. And so I didn't take it personally. And I work with many clients who will say, you know, my boss works all hours. My boss sends emails at 10 pm, and they expect a response within an hour. And I think that if we are in positions of leadership, it is critically, critically important that you develop the skill of having your own healthy boundaries.

Marli Williams [: 00:22:59

Mhmm.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:23:01

And that you are not motivated, I often use this phrase that shame and scarcity are ineffective growth drivers. And if you are using shame and scarcity, to motivate you to work hard, and to show up, if that's a pattern that's been habituated in your life, it is not serving you. You may feel like it is, but it is not. And the example that you're setting for your team, they then have to emulate. Mhmm. They feel a need to match you, and to match your poor boundaries. And ultimately, what you're doing is you're creating an incredibly unhealthy dynamic.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:23:36

And I know that's not what any of us want. Most of us, we get into leadership positions because we wanna help other people succeed.

Marli Williams [: 00:23:42

I think it it comes from going back to, you know, answering those emails and responding to people. I think, again, it comes from a good place. Like, I wanna do a good job. I wanna be responsive. I wanna get things done. I want you know, I wanna be effective in my role in my job. And it's like again, it's like, what is the cost of answering the emails at 10 o'clock? And my one of my favorite lines that I like to say is, like, it's not a kidney in a cooler. Like most of us, unless we are heart surgeon doctors, we're not doing open heart surgery, and we are treating every email that comes into our inbox like we're doing open heart surgery.

Marli Williams [: 00:24:20

Like, someone will die if this email doesn't get sent out tonight. And I think that in this, like, hybrid tech 247 world, you know, before it was like you left the office at 5 and you were done with work. And especially people that are listed, they're entrepreneurs. Like, there's always work to do, always emails to be sent, always something we could be working on. And I think it's like, what am I doing this for? Who am I doing this for? And recognizing, like, yeah, what's the current culture and what needs to shift or change? And, you know, from a leadership perspective, yet, like, it's like the top down of, like, are they what behaviors and expectations are you modeling? And you could even say to your staff, oh, you you don't have to respond right away. But if you're responding right away, you know, people don't do what you say. They do what you do. So shifting that culture of what does it look like to create psychological safety in a workplace environment where you're okay, where it's okay to say no, or it's okay to set those? Like, what are our expectations around Slack communication, response time, email communication with ourselves, with our clients? Like, is there clarity around that, and is that cocreated? You know? Because some of that is just happening on default versus by design with a level of intentionality of, like, what works for us? What works for our team, our particular business, you know, people that are in real estate? It's like, if you don't answer the thing, like, 2 minutes later, they're on to another client.

Marli Williams [: 00:26:08

Or, you know, they're looking for another person who can show them the house to you know, today.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:26:12

Yeah. If you don't answer the calls, someone might not get their dream home. Yeah.

Marli Williams [: 00:26:17

So there's this, like, level of, like, pressure and expectation. And but, again, I think that that comes from scarcity. Like, there's not enough. And it's like, what would it look like if I had boundaries and I would be a better boss, leader, person, parent, partner? It's like, for what purpose are we, like, running around like crazy people trying to do all the things? So how do we yeah. I think it's just an interesting question of, like, how do we break this habit in our workplaces, in our relationships with ourselves, with our partners, with our kids, parents, family. You know?

Robynne Weaver [: 00:26:53

So let's jump into the meat of that a little bit.

Marli Williams [: 00:26:55

Let's do it.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:26:56

So let's do it. So, basically, you've gotta start off, 1st and foremost, with building a really strong why for yourself. Why is it important to you to choose new behaviors? I'll share a couple of things that some of my respondents to my surveys have shared. Gaining awareness of your own wants and needs. Learning to put your life jacket on before helping others. Living a more authentic life. Taking control of your time. Having a sense of autonomy and the ability the ability to act on your own behalf, having freedom to be able to establish your own boundaries without feeling guilty, Finding your authentic yes or no.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:27:42

And ultimately, it's really about being able to step into the most authentically aligned version of ourselves. That version that isn't masking, that version that isn't saying I'm so afraid of losing my connection with you. I'm losing my connection with me.

Marli Williams [: 00:27:57

I think that that's so important, like having that strong why of know knowing why does it matter to for me to shift this? You know? And and understanding where it's coming from.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:28:09

Yeah. So once you have that really strong why, I think it's important to take an assessment of your to reveal your own patterns. So staying mindful of the drama triangle. I use my own version of the trauma triangle. It's not the traditional Cartman labels. I call it victim, villain, hero. Where am I stepping into the role of victim, villain, or hero? Many times for people pleasers, we're stepping into hero.

Marli Williams [: 00:28:39

Mhmm.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:28:40

The hero is the manager. The hero is the caretaker. The hero is the person who's got it all together. Mhmm. So are there certain situations in which you're most likely to people please? And what behaviors do you engage in when you do it? Are there certain people you tend to people please with the most? Go ahead and name those people, write them down. And ask yourself if there's one person in particular who's standing out to you, let's hone in on that person. I want you to ask yourself, are you trying to manage or control this person's impression of you? Are you trying to manage or control this person's emotional state? And sit down and give yourself 10 or 15 minutes to write a letter to this person and list your expectations for them. What are the things that you expect them to do? What are the things that you want for them, that you desire for them, that you think are the best outcomes for them? And once you've gotten to the end of that, I mean, let it rip, really let it all out, let it let it you're never gonna give it to this person.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:29:53

Once you're done, at the top of the letter where you wrote dear and their name, cross that out and write your own name. That's so good. And then reflect on that. Read that letter back to yourself as it as if it is addressed to you. How does it feel to be treated this way? How does it feel to be managed in this way? To have these expectations put on you? How does it feel to be controlled in this way? This is a really, really powerful exercise that I encourage anyone to just try on. If there's someone in your life that you do with this with the most, I guarantee there are valuable lessons here for you to learn about what you need to give yourself.

Marli Williams [: 00:30:38

Yeah. Thing is so so powerful to again, recognize the the patterns and the people like you said, like, where do I tend to do this the most often? Who do I tend to do it with? Again, unraveling and unpacking that dynamic and saying like, really understanding what that's about and how and how that's impacting your relationship with them. Right?

Robynne Weaver [: 00:31:05

Yeah. So let's talk about exploring new boundaries, and how people can go about setting those.

Marli Williams [: 00:31:11

Yeah. Let's do it.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:31:13

So it's really valuable to ask yourself, once you've identified who are your people pleasing with and why, what are your non negotiables? Are these boundaries that what are the boundaries that you're setting with yourself, for yourself? Are there things you are no longer willing to do, or ways in which you are no longer willing to show up? And then go ahead and try it out. You know, define the new boundaries that you wanna play with. These could be internal or external boundaries. So an internal boundary, these are the ones that come up inside of you. So for example, I'm gonna skip my workout because I want to accommodate this person's request for my time. Mhmm. There is no one violating a boundary in that situation but you. Right.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:31:59

You get to your workout. Stick to it. Yeah. An external one would be requests that come in from others, and I think this is one of the most common ones that I hear all the time. I have a hard time saying no to people. I have a hard time not immediately hitting yes on a request for a meeting, even if I'm unprepared for the meeting. Right. So how can you plan for these obstacles in advance? And I think an example that I've used is when I start to feel pressure about a boundary that I've already decided on, I'll just give myself a certain amount of time to respond.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:32:31

Mhmm. I even created a mantra for this back in the day in my in my event planning career when it was a really big problem for me. I wrote down a mantra that just said, no immediate yeses. Mhmm. And that was my rule. I don't say yes immediately to anything. Mhmm. I take at least a couple of hours.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:32:53

I take at least a beat to think about it and to really make sure that it's not conflicting with the boundary that I need to uphold for myself.

Marli Williams [: 00:33:02

Yeah. The power of a pause in that moment. Like, just such a great awareness, like, no no immediate yeses. Like, when our tendency again, like, when we're aware of, oh, my pattern is just to say yes to everything. So then boundary or behavior would be no immediate yeses or, like, I wait an hour to respond or, you know, and and what is that what that looks like for you, really sitting with that?

Robynne Weaver [: 00:33:27

And I'd like to encourage everyone to experiment with saying no, and dropping see if you can drop the need to over explain. Oof. Experiment with saying no, and drop the need to over explain. So what that looks like is you stop apologizing unnecessarily. Some examples of ways to do that is you leave something out of an email, or you leave something out of a text message. Instead of saying, Oh, I'm so sorry, what if you just say, Correction, the meeting time is 10 am, not 11 am? Very clear communication. You're not putting yourself down. Yeah.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:34:05

If you tend to over commit your time, what if you tried on something like, I'd love to do this, however, I have a hard stop at 3 PM? And then it's on you to uphold that boundary and maintain that boundary. Right.

Marli Williams [: 00:34:17

Because sometimes it's like, oh, I would love to go to lunch with this person, but, like, an hour long lunch is really a 3 hour long journey, you know, whatever. And so it's having the boundary and then, like you just said, holding the down. You know, I have a meeting that I have to get to, or I just have a hard stop. I gotta go.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:34:35

And also, that person doesn't need to know why you have a hard stop. Right. Maybe you have a hard stop because you're picking your dog up from doggy day care. Yeah. Maybe you have a hard stop because you need to take a walk around the block. Yeah. Person doesn't need to know.

Marli Williams [: 00:34:47

The over explaining is so interesting, and even just catching that or noticing that as a pattern. Where am I over explaining or over apologizing? They're like, I'm sorry, and my dog was sick, and then I was late, and then there was traffic, and then all the things. It's like and I really I appreciate it. Someone had a shift of, like, thank you for your patience in my you know, or something like that versus I'm so sorry I'm late. Right. Or whatever. You know, so it's like how are we shifting out of the over explaining.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:35:24

Yeah. And the beautiful thing about this type of communication is we're being very clear. Right? Like, you never know. Maybe that family member who you invite over for dinner and they stay until midnight every time you invite them over for dinner, maybe they really don't wanna be doing that too. Maybe they go home and realize, like, oh my gosh, I'm, like, tired from the night before because I stayed there until midnight again. Why did I do that? So you could say, I'd love to have you come over for dinner at 6 PM. Let's do dinner from 6 PM to 8 PM. You can say that.

Marli Williams [: 00:35:55

It's like giving ourselves permission to be really clear. And I think that part of it is like noticing where do you have resentment in your life or in your relationships? I've heard this quote before it says that complaint is a desire in disguise. I love that. So where am I like, oh, my God, this person's always, well, like, stays at my house until midnight, or this is great. You know, That is an invitation, an opportunity to notice where you can set and hold a new boundary.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:36:29

Yeah. It will take others a moment to adjust to your new way of being and operating. That's okay.

Marli Williams [: 00:36:36

Yeah.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:36:36

That's normal. But ultimately, if you're engaging with people who care about you, support you, ultimately they will realize that better boundaries are good for them too. Yeah. And that they free them up too.

Marli Williams [: 00:36:54

Yeah. That is it's recognizing it's good for everybody. And I've started really, like, nurturing and building friendships and relationships with a couple of really good friends. And it feels so much easier to ask them something like, hey, can you take me to the airport or pick me up or something? Because I trust their yes, and I trust their no. We have a relationship dynamic or friendship dynamic where it's like they're allowed to say no, and I don't take it personally. Or I'm not like, oh, they don't like you know? And we and it's not it's just so freeing, and it makes it easier to make asks or requests of like, hey, can you can you watch my dog for the night? Or, like, can you come over and let him out or something? I have an event all day. And that they we have a strong enough friendship that they again, it's like we have a safety within that where they're allowed to say no. And not people, please.

Marli Williams [: 00:37:52

Oh, Marli's gonna not like like me, if I don't do this or if I don't pick her up, then we're not gonna be friends anymore. You know, it's like, how can we build and safety. And like you said, it's like it's good for everyone. And at first, it might feel awkward. And I really like to be authentic of like, hey, one of the things that I'm working on this year is having better boundaries around my time. And this feels really uncomfortable for me, because I've never done it before. And my biggest fear, it's like almost naming the fears to like, I'm terrified of letting you down. And I can't do this thing that we've been doing.

Marli Williams [: 00:38:31

You know, it's like spending staying out until midnight. I can't do that anymore. I need my rest. That's really important to me. So, like, but I think it's like being genuine and being authentic of saying like, this is new. I'm new here to boundary setting land. Yeah. Absolutely.

Marli Williams [: 00:38:50

And our dynamic is like, Anne, I really value your friendship. Yeah. And I want you to be able to say no. I wanna be able to say no so that we can trust our yes and we can trust our no and have more, like, better relationships with ourselves and the people around us.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:39:07

And the way that we can make this easier for the people in our lives is to literally give them an example. Right? Give them a very clear example. So for example, one of my dear friends often would have, like, FOMO. If all of us were going out, and she wasn't invited, she would be like, so hurt that she wasn't invited, and it would be like, oh, well, I knew you couldn't come, so I didn't invite you because I already knew you couldn't come. Right. You still wanted to be invited. Right? And I think for a lot of us, if you just tell someone, hey, I'm gonna invite you to this thing. I don't make it mean anything either way if you can come or not, and you don't have to over explain.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:39:45

You can just say, thanks for the invite, not for me. Thanks so much for thinking of me. It's not my thing. Yeah. Period. Because none of us want to begrudgingly drag someone along with us who doesn't wanna be there doing the thing that you wanna be doing. That's not fun. Yeah.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:40:02

Sometimes, you know, really clearly communicating what that could look like, what that text could look like, what that phone call could look like, what that voice note could look like. Yeah. It allows people to be like, oh, okay. I have that pass to use when I need to use it.

Marli Williams [: 00:40:16

I think, again, that is there's so much power in communicating clearly with the people in our lives, around our expectations and around, you know, again, when we're when we're shifting and growing and changing, bringing people along on that journey. And then like, if there are people that cannot handle that, then we get to let them. Yeah, again, going back to like, let them be disappointed. You know, it's like, I've been left out, and I've been disappointed. And I've left people out. And I've disappointed other people, right? It's just like, it is part of human nature. And I think, really unpacking, what do we make no mean? There's a way to say no to an invitation and yes to a person. Mhmm.

Marli Williams [: 00:41:06

Absolutely. Right? And it's like that's like, thank you so much for thinking of me. I love being invited. And that's not my jam, or I'm busy that night or whatever. But it's like, and there's also a way to say yes, from a place of like, guilt, like, do do you wanna go for a hike? And it's like, fine. Like, I don't want anyone to come on a hike with me who doesn't wanna be there. Like you said, it's so so it's like in our relationships, can we open this new way of being and connecting to allow both people the opportunity to really trust themselves, trust their yes, trust their no, and trust the other person to handle it?

Robynne Weaver [: 00:41:49

And, you know, it might be a little uncomfortable at first. It might be a little disjointed at first. That's why I do recommend communicating about it versus just acting on it and have your friends be like, Oh, she's really different now. You know? If you communicate about it first, everyone's gonna know where you're coming from. They're gonna know that you're trying on this new skill. You know, when we first started talking, we talked about how my work is breaking the habit of people pleasing. It's a habit. It takes time.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:42:15

We're not gonna do it perfectly. It's a skill that we're building. It's a muscle we're learning to use. So I think really communicating that to those folks that you tend to people please with the most. And then also sharing your why with them, letting them know why it's important to you. Do you really need to prioritize your sleep and your health right now? Do you really need to prioritize time in your primary relationship? Do you really need to prioritize your work? Are you in a really busy season where it makes sense that you do need to prioritize your work?

Marli Williams [: 00:42:46

Helping people understand why this seems to be.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:42:50

Yeah. I think having that communication, and then yeah. There might be some bumps and hiccups along the way, and it might be it might not be perfect as you're first learning to establish and maintain healthy boundaries. But as you do that, the people who are your people, they're gonna appreciate it, and they're gonna end up being there in the end. Yeah. And maybe the people who aren't your people, who needed you to be on call for them all the time, who who were maybe leaning on your friendship or your guidance in ways that weren't really healthy, those people may exit your life. Yeah. Let them. Yes, let them.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:43:27

Exactly. That's okay.

Marli Williams [: 00:43:29

Yeah.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:43:30

Dropping the control over the outcome because none of us can really know what's best for everyone. We can only know what's best for ourselves and communicate that.

Marli Williams [: 00:43:39

Yeah. And again, letting go of the it's the illusion of control and the illusion of connection and really creating authentic, meaningful, real deep connections with people in our lives and intimacy. And that comes from being really authentic and true to ourselves. And I love the quote that says, when when you choose you, others get the best of you. Mhmm. I would love for you to share any final golden nuggets, words of wisdom, anything else you wanna leave our folks with today, and where can people find you, learn more about this, or like, oh my gosh. I am a people pleaser. I'm a recovering people pleaser.

Marli Williams [: 00:44:18

I wanna learn more. How can I break this habit? Where can people find you and your work in the world?

Robynne Weaver [: 00:44:24

Yeah. Well, you know, thank you so much for having me, Marli. And I hope that this topic resonates with a lot of your listeners listeners. I'm hosting a workshop at Kiln in Portland. It's called Break the Habit of People Pleasing. The same title I use over and over again, and it's on Wednesday, February 25th at 5:30. It's a low cost workshop for the community. It's just $35 a person, and we're going to cap it at 35 people to keep the experience really intimate.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:44:51

And, you can also check out my website, which is robynneweaver.com. My name is spelled uniquely. It's robynneweaver, w e a, v like Victor, e r. And I have a free people pleasing quick check. So it's a little quiz that you can take yourself, if you want to, on the site. It's a self assessment, and it's got some journal prompts to kinda help you start to build the skill of breaking the habit of people pleasing. For anyone who is really serious and wants the freedom to be able to establish and control boundaries without feeling guilty, I am going to be, releasing a course this spring. It's a 4 week course.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:45:31

It's self paced. It's along the same lines, breaking the habit of people pleasing. It's $400 a person, and there is an upgrade option to do 2 private coaching sessions with me for $720 So anybody who is interested in that can check that out on my website as well. And I think my party notes that I would love to leave everyone with is that this work is truly, deeply loving work. When you can establish and set up good boundaries for yourself, you create good boundaries for everyone else around you. You allow others to feel that it's safe and okay for them to also communicate and mirror back to you in the same way that you are communicating to them. And that's the biggest gift of all. If we can all live as aligned with our essential selves and as rooted in our authenticity as possible, we're all gonna be ultimately very pleased.

Marli Williams [: 00:46:33

So true. Well, I am so so so grateful for you, for your knowledge, for your wisdom, for the tangible, like, exercises and prompts and things that people can actually do to unravel this habit of people pleasing. And I always like to say, be be gentle with yourself on this journey. This isn't another place to shame or should on ourselves or make ourselves wrong. It is the way that our world has conditioned us to be, and so it's really choosing to do it differently in service of ourselves, in service of having healthy, beautiful, amazing relationships with our kids, our partners, our family, our coworkers, our bosses, and, you know, like, our relationships. The quality of our lives is determined by the quality of our relationships. And I really think that this is such a beautiful practice and to see it as a practice, that it is a skill that you can develop and learn. And like Robynne said, it might be a little awkward, little fun, comfortable at first, but we believe in you.

Marli Williams [: 00:47:41

You got this. And thank you so much, for listening to this amazing episode. If this resonated with you, we would love for you to share it, love it, like it, send it to a friend, all that good stuff. So thank you for listening. Thank you, Robynne, for being here, and can't wait to see you next time on the podcast.

Robynne Weaver [: 00:48:00

Thank you so much, Marli.

Marli Williams [: 00:48:05

Thank you for joining us on another inspiring episode of the Marli Williams podcast. We hope you're leaving here with renewed energy and valuable insights to fuel your leadership, coaching, and speaking episodes and remarkable guests lined up, so make sure to tune in next time. Until then, keep leading with purpose, coaching with heart, and speaking with conviction. This is Marli Williams signing off. See you next week.