Leading with Love: The Role of Feedback in Relationships and Leadership -09

We feel it is important to make our podcast transcripts available for accessibility. We use quality artificial intelligence tools to make it possible for us to provide this resource to our audience. We do have human eyes reviewing this, but they will rarely be 100% accurate. We appreciate your patience with the occasional errors you will find in our transcriptions. If you find an error in our transcription, or if you would like to use a quote, or verify what was said, please feel free to reach out to us at connect@37by27.com.

Marli Williams [: 00:00:00

Hey, everybody. What is happening? Welcome back to the Marli Williams podcast. I am super stoked because today, I'm going to be interviewing and having a powerful conversation with Barry Selby. Barry is a masterful relationship expert, bestselling author, inspirational speaker and spiritual guide. He's an expert facilitator and guide for single seeking healthy relationships and true self love. Barry is affectionately known by his clients and friends as the love doctor. And today, Barry and I will be exploring the intersection of relationships and leadership and dive into the power of asking for and receiving feedback from the people around you to make you an even better leader than you already are. I can't wait to dive into this powerful conversation with you today. Let's go.

Marli Williams [: 00:00:58

Hey, everyone. What's happening? I am super stoked to welcome you to the Marli Williams podcast where we will explore authentic leadership, transformational facilitation and how to create epic experiences for your audiences every single time. I am your host, Marli Williams bringing you thought provoking insights, expert interviews, and actionable strategies to unlock your potential as a leader, facilitator, and speaker. Thank you for joining me on this journey of growth, transformation, and impact. Let's Lead Together. The Marli Williams podcast begins now. Let's dive in.

Marli Williams [: 00:01:40

Alright, everybody. I would love to welcome you back to the Marli Williams podcast where today, I get to hang out with my amazing friend, Barry Selby. Welcome to the show.

Barry Selby [: 00:01:50

Thank you, Marli. It's a pleasure to be here, and I'm so excited for what we get to talk about today.

Marli Williams [: 00:01:55

I love it. Well, Barry, I know that you do some amazing work in the world and I would love for you to just like kick us off with describing who you are, what you do, and maybe even a little bit of, like, what has brought you to the world of being a relationship guru? That's what I think of you as.

Barry Selby [: 00:02:14

Well, I appreciate that branding. That's the most annoying assumption again. I wouldn't blame for myself.

Marli Williams [: 00:02:20

I can call you that.

Barry Selby [: 00:02:21

Certainly. Feel free. I sometimes, no. I'm not going to stop you. For me, I've been on this journey, ultimately, my whole life in terms of relationship, not as a business, but it's been something I've been aware of, just the way that I have paid the price in bad relationships where I've watched other people have good ones, have bad ones, that sort of thing. So, for me, relationships have always been fascinating to me. The reason why I do this work really was the last big bad breakup I had back in 2006, so it's been a bunch of time was a wakeup call that I couldn't avoid. Like, she read me the right act. She was so upset and all this sort of stuff, but I got the gem out of that. Because in partial relationships, I'd, you know, I'd either crash and burn and become the victim, or I'd argue my way out and think I'd won sort of thing, which is what a lot of people do.

Barry Selby [: 00:03:04

I started playing the victim, but then I started seeing, hang a second. This isn't the 1st time this has happened. That's a big clue, by the way. What can I do with this? And that means the work I've been doing for the last 15 years, 16 years. So, I coach. I speak. I've got 2 podcasts, and I have a book out. So, I love talking about relationships because, frankly, love is my, one of my core values. And in any area of life, especially in leadership, we talk about to have love for what you do and love for the people around you are probably one of the best lubricants for success.

Marli Williams [: 00:03:34

Yeah. I love that so much. And I actually just sat down to write out my core values for myself and my business, and the number one thing, the first thing I actually wrote was lead with love.

Barry Selby [: 00:03:44

Nice.

Marli Williams [: 00:03:45

And, you know, that we were talking about before just this idea of that how relational leadership is. Any type of leadership role that you have, it really is about how am I effectively managing, supporting, loving the people that I'm working with into, you know, their own leadership potential or their own leadership journey. And so, I love this idea that we get to explore today of, like, how to be a more relational leader, how to apply some of the principles of effective relationships into leadership. I think that that feels fun. I'm just like, oh, let's talk about that.

Barry Selby [: 00:04:24

I mean, this is years ago now. First, a book. I don't remember what the author concepts, but the book called Servant Leadership by Greenfield. And that teaches about how leadership isn't about being in front, being on the pedestal, sort of being the boss of everything and feeling you're immune. It's, in fact, like you were saying, it's the sense that you almost lead by serving your people, your audience in a way that they feel lifted. For me, it has to come from love because if you're doing it as a means to get yourself better off, that's also not a healthy way either. If you do it with the way of out of certain like, in servant leadership, service to lead, gifting other people with your wisdom, your knowledge, your guidance so they become better and everybody wins.

Marli Williams [: 00:05:02

How we met was through a group about ethical sales. And one of, I think, our mentors, Marla Mattenson, who I think is an extremely relational leader. Right? There's this idea of collaborative leadership. There's a nature of cocreating the experience together, and yet there's like so much more respect I think that we have for Marla because of the way that she relates to people. Right? Thinking about, like, as a leader, that question of, like, how am I relating to the people around me? How am I witnessing them? How am I seeing their greatness? How am I creating, you know, a company culture, a team culture, an environment where people feel connected to me as the leader, but connected to each other and lifting each other up and raising each other up and just this, like I just think it's a new model of leadership that we're stepping into or we're moving away from again this like sage on the stage. That 1 person has all the knowledge and wisdom to convey versus, like, how can we collaborate? And looking at the ways in which we communicate as leaders to either build each other up or break each other down. Right?

Barry Selby [: 00:06:24

One thing she does, which I think is one of the most courageous things about asking people to give feedback about things that they have judged her on or she feels she's done, where she crossed the line sort of thing. And in relationship, that’s something, again, people don't really usually do. But if you're willing to have and I talk about this in my work, when you get into a relationship, if you have, like, a weekly, you know, meeting, relationship meeting, but not to critique each other, but to just share where you feel you are and where you feel you want to be with your partner. And to be willing to go there where you're actually saying, you know, what did I do that I crossed the line on, or where you think that I did something where I judged you or I said something harsh, where you feel I can get feedback because the real transparency of leadership is to be seen without hiding anything in a way. And most people tend to hide what's not pretty or good about themselves to look good, especially in the dating field. God. You know? But in business and in relationship, leadership that way, same thing's true. If you can be in the role of leadership with your team, your group, and still be vulnerable and still be real so they can see you, even your warts and all, so to speak, then it makes 1, it makes you more relatable, but, 2, it, in a way, gives them permission to be honest as well, and that creates more transparency with each other, which is beautiful.

Marli Williams [: 00:07:37

Yeah. And that transparency creates trust.

Barry Selby [: 00:07:42

Yes.

Marli Williams [: 00:07:42

Right? If we want people to trust us, we have to give them an opportunity to do that. And I love what you're talking about of this, like and I have some friends that do it, and I'm currently in a new relationship. And I'm like, oh, I really want to, my friends call it a relationship radar where, you know, every week I don't know how they do it. Every week, every other week, or once a month where they're creating an intentional opportunity to check-in with each other of like, what's working, what's not working, how are you doing, how am I doing, and soliciting that feedback not just on, like, tell me all the things that I'm great at. Tell me all the things that you love, which is something that I know I'm really good at. But, like, tell me what could be better. Are there blind spots that I'm not seeing? And, you know, again, all of these things that we might do in a relationship applying that to our own leadership. And are we asking the people around us for feedback? Are we saying, tell me what's working. Tell me what's not working. How can I do it even better? Right?

Marli Williams [: 00:08:45

And that is the only way we're going to learn. And I think so many people I'd love to dive into this idea of feedback, asking for it, receiving it from this relational lens in order to help us lead more effectively, more intentionally, and why you think maybe why are people so scared of feedback, asking for it, receiving it, giving it.

Barry Selby [: 00:09:11

This reminds me, I mean, I've been in a seminar training business for, since the mid-80s, so a long time. And the 1st seminar I took is I go back in ‘84. So, I did that seminar a few times, so I remember the practice. There's a whole thing about feedback. And we talked about negative and positive feedback, and there's the idea that some people who feel like they can only deal with positive feedback never need negative feedback. So, you know, they go in the morning, get in the car, they yank off the negative lead off their battery because they don't want any negativity in their life, and they wonder why the car won't start. So, feedback is necessary for both, first of all. The 2nd piece is and this is another piece that talks about in that process, is people oftentimes, we'll take 1 piece of negative feedback and shut down, collapse, run away, hide, all those things because most of us haven't been shown that negative feedback is given with love.

Barry Selby [: 00:10:01

Most people look at negative feedback when it comes with anger or upset or rage or discernment or whatever those things are that are negative. So, when we get negative feedback, we assume there's negative consequences to go with it, and so we don't want to hear anymore. And so, in the model, I talk about how and this is the thing they talk about. It's like how autopilot on we have airplanes. When a flight plane flies from LA to New York, it's off course, over 90% of the time because it's called course correcting because wind currents and everything else. So, the plane doesn't suddenly go, I fly anymore because listening to feedback. Energy learns from it. And that's the true thing about negative feedback.

Barry Selby [: 00:10:36

When we do share with our partners, with our audience, or get feedback from other people negative feedback with kindness, with love, and compassion. There's room for us to go, I can work with that. I'm willing to change because I'm being encouraged, encouraged to grow, to thrive, to make a difference because of what I learned. Positive feedback is usually just, frankly, just strokes. It's encouragement, but it's also when we get it, it's wonderful, but it's, in a way, temporary. It doesn't last as long. This negative feedback can be more usable when, again, giving them kindness, love, compassion. So useful.

Marli Williams [: 00:11:11

Yeah. And I love that. And one of the things that I learned about giving and receiving feedback is that we can give feedback from our low self. From like, I suck and so I want to make sure you know that you suck. Like, it's like I'm giving you negative feedback to make me feel better. That's giving feedback from our kind of low self. We can give feedback from our high self of saying like, I see your potential. I see your greatness. I see that maybe you didn't mean to do this or say this and this was the impact that that had. And I see your potential as a partner, as a leader. And I love this idea of I'm trusting that you have the capacity to receive that. Like, I'm giving it not to baby you or belittle you, but it's like, I see you. And then we can receive feedback from our low self of like any negative feedback goes right to, you know, there's a book called, Undefended Love and they talk about the broken toe. And the broken toe is like we all have some version of a not good enough story. And usually negative feedback. We hear it as you're right. I'm not good enough. You're right. I'm not a good enough partner. I'm not a good enough leader. I'm not blah blah blah. And so, we receive that and that's what when we, like, maybe shut down, collapse. And then we can also receive feedback from our high self of, I know that I'm always learning and growing as a leader, as a partner, as a parent. And so, because I'm always learning and growing, I can receive it from that place of tell me how can I do this better? I want to be the best partner for you. I want to be the best leader for this team and company. Tell me. Tell me. Like, I want to know. And soliciting that, asking for it, right, and making it safe both ways. Like, how do you create that safety, that trust, that rapport where this is the way that we give and receive feedback in our relationship. This is the way we give and receive feedback with because there is a way to do it with love and kindness and compassion, and there is a way to do it that can really make people feel terrible. You know?

Barry Selby [: 00:13:26

Absolutely. The thing is, also, for ourselves, if we are willing to go into the world, and this is the thing with driving a car or doing anything. You can look at what's around you and either judge and blame yourself for doing something wrong or blame and judge what they are doing, which is the lower self, or you can just go, oh, hang on. That red light, I'm just going to stop, folks. It's safer that way. I can learn from that versus going, I ignore all red lights and go straight through. Like, you know, that's not a very smart move. So, it's that sense of taking feedback and using it for your upliftment and for your safety.

Barry Selby [: 00:13:56

And in a relationship, that's one of the things I mean, I talked about soulmates before in in my podcast talking about how some people assume a soulmate is going to make everything easier. Unfortunately, what I've learned over the years is it's not necessarily making it easier, but they're going to make things real, as in that they give you a clear and unbiased reflection of who you are. It’s different depending on how you take it, but the gift is that they are doing it from a higher place. So, when you do see the issues, the challenges, you go, oh, I'm grateful for that feedback because I can do something with that. Again, use it constructively because this thing about how we grow, it's like we grow through grace or we grow through challenge, and most of the time, it's challenge that gives opportunities for us. Unfortunately, we don't go through grace that often because grace doesn't shop that often in terms of default. We have to work for that. But really, when we grow from the feedback, I mean, frankly, if you're with a partner who's giving you feedback to encourage you to be better, they're winning too because you've changed, you've grown, and so everybody wins. So, it's really seeing that it's a gift you're getting, not a curse.

Marli Williams [: 00:15:02

Yeah. Again, in relationships and also within your teams, your companies, your organizations, what are people's reactions or relationship to the word feedback, to giving feedback, to receiving it, and coming to this place of I want everyone to win here. Like, that's the goal. That's the intention. And, you know, I've heard stories in books where someone had to fire somebody. Oh, it was the woman who wrote the book, Radical Candor, which is really great if you are of learning how to not be I'm a recovering people pleaser. Where it's like I'm so good at telling people how great they are, but giving challenging constructive feedback, it's been a skill that I've had to learn.

Marli Williams [: 00:15:46

And she tells the story of a guy that ultimately, she had to let go of from the team because all these people were complaining about him. And at the end of the day, nobody told him because they didn't think he could handle it. And this idea that's the, like, can you trust the other person's capacity to receive it? And again, as a recovering people pleaser of, like, I want everybody to like me versus I want everyone to trust and respect me. And I learned that if I just people please and I just tell people what I think they want to hear, people don't trust that. And they don't grow. And they don't change, you know? And so, it's like, instead of being liked, you could be loved, revered, admired, respected because it takes so much courage to give somebody challenging feedback. I don't even love the word negative feedback. It's just like I think that we all as people, as partners, as parents, as leaders, have blind spots. There are always things that we can't see. And if we're open to seeing it and we keep hearing the same thing over and over, it might be something to look at. If it's a one-off thing, like, because feedback can sometimes be a projection from somebody else's reality. But if we're hearing the same thing over and over, it might be an invitation to for something to look at. And that, like, relational leadership is creating a, like, a two directional conversation.

Marli Williams [: 00:17:24

And usually, we think about feedback as, like, the leader is giving the employee or the coworker feedback and that it's this a one directional conversation versus the leader leading even before giving that other person feedback. And, you know, in a relationship, instead of me going to my partner and giving them feedback, like, asking for it. Like, that is such a powerful leadership move to say, like, how can I be a better boss? I'm soliciting that. I'm asking for it before I'm offering it to you. I create the container where that is safe to do that. Because I think it's like, well, why don't people give their leaders feedback? Because the leader hasn't given them permission to.

Barry Selby [: 00:18:14

Frankly, the leaders are afraid to hear it because they don't want to have their own ivory tower shattered, so to speak. They believe they've achieved this tower of success, and anybody giving negative feedback might undermine that because, like you were saying Marli, we have wounds that we carry, that broken toe thing idea, but we may not feel we can trust anybody to give us feedback that will add to our lives because it can knock us down. And a couple of things I want to add to what you're saying that one of the pieces that came up earlier is we have this tendency when we give feedback that's negative to say, especially using the, you lead with good stuff. Say, you know, I love this about you. I love this about you, but this, which we know, but it's a deletion of everything that came before. So, if you can just shift the wordings of, like, I love what you do with this and love this. And if you would change this, it'll be even better. That's constructive feedback. Constructive versus destructive.

Barry Selby [: 00:18:59

The other part is that when we give feedback, and this is a thing that I talk about in my work with the especially about when with resentments and communications is we have this tendency oftentimes to dump our responsibility of our own feelings on the other person. So when we give them feedback about something like, you know, you made me feel this way is inaccurate, but we think that way. But what we said, well, reality is when you did this, I felt upset that we take ownership of our feelings. And even in feedback, whether it's leadership or in relationship, when we can distinguish that, we choose how we feel so what happened is we have response or reaction to circumstances outside ourselves, but as a partner or employee or an employer, we can say, first of all, it isn't them that did it to me. I chose to take a feeling that way. I can change the feeling. That no longer affects me that way, and that shift internally can make receiving feedback and giving feedback much easier and cleaner.

Marli Williams [: 00:19:55

Yeah. And when we can own and take responsibility for that. And, like, when you show up late to the meetings, I feel disrespected. Like, I don't feel like my time is valuable. And then, like, is there a solution? Is there a request? My request would be and this is, you know, nonviolent communication 101 here. You know, my request is that you show up on time. Is that something that you think you can do, right? And you can always say, are you okay? Is something happening in your life or at home or, you know, like, can we lead with curiosity rather than make a bunch of assumptions? Because I'm making assumptions that you don't care about my time versus like, oh, your partner left you and now you have to drop your kid off to school, which is why you're late or whatever. Like, there could be so many things going on.

Marli Williams [: 00:20:46

And can we lean in with love and curiosity? And I think that curiosity is the antidote to judgment. And so, anytime we're judging something, like judging someone being late or not showing up, it's like, can I get curious about that. And I love this idea of really taking responsibility for your own experience and bringing that to the table and, again, creating a culture where that is a part of the conversation.

Barry Selby [: 00:21:17

That is such a key one. In fact, one of my pet hang ups is timekeeping. It's one thing I grew up and learned over the years, and through some trainings, I discovered how valuable timekeeping is for, basically, for trust. So that idea of keeping agreements, one of the things I had said to many people, but definitely this morning also, I had a Zoom call early this morning, and I was on the Zoom call waiting for 10 minutes. The person didn't show up. So, I emailed him and say, look, you know, I appreciate next time you give me a heads up that you can't make it on time. And that's the thing. Especially with cell phones and texting nowadays, if you're going to be late to a meeting, if you're willing to say, you know, you know you're going to be 10 minutes late, text the person to say no because if you do that, everything usually is fine. Sitting there twiddling their thumbs on the computer is something productive for 10 minutes. That idea about communicating and being in the loop so people know what you're doing because one of the biggest things that I think destroys the trust of relationships, whether it's business or romantic, is when we don't keep our agreements. And the challenge of the agreement is not going to be a little piece here, but one of the things about agreements is we tend to make agreements without realizing it, which is the biggest challenge. We'll say we do something and a partner hears that, makes it law, and we forget about it. We wonder why they're upset with us because we didn't keep our agreement with them that we forgot we made. Making agreements important is a key one. Like, when you make an agreement, write it down, put it in your phone, make it, do something so you know it's an agreement you've made. The second thing is, and this is challenging when people are people pleasers, is make less agreements.

Barry Selby [: 00:22:40

Say no more often because most of us are oftentimes going to say, yes. I'll do that for you, honey. Yes. I'll do that for you, sir, because we want to be respected, loved, appreciated, and sometimes we overcommit. So, making less agreements are one of the ways to not to negate that, but to make our trustability stronger because then the groups that do keep do make can be kept more easily.

Marli Williams [: 00:22:58

Right. And I think that whether it's in a relationship or in the workplace, there's so many unspoken expectations as well. Right? Like, what do you expect of your employees or your partner that you haven't actually expressed, you haven't actually communicated. And they often say, you know, 90% of all challenges in our life are because of a lack of or a miscommunication with other people in our life. Like, they heard one thing, you said something, you didn't honor that agreement, but you don't remember honoring, you know, saying that you would agree to doing that. All of that and how powerful it is to take responsibility when that comes up. And there was something else that came up for me when we were talking about the feedback piece that I think is really important and I and it's, I know Gottman has done a lot of work on the ratios of kind of criticism and praise. And, you know, if, like, 90% of the time you are riming on somebody's work or telling them, like, underlying red, red, red, like, telling them how bad of a job that they're doing.

Marli Williams [: 00:24:14

So, we're not just saying, like, go give everybody negative feedback. It's the ratio of positive to negative or praise to criticism that actually allow people to receive that criticism with love because you also notice the good things that they're doing. Right? Sometimes we assume that feedback is always negative. I think when you're wanting your kids to do more of the things that you want them to do, are you praising them? Are you acknowledging when they are doing what you ask them to do? Or they are following through? Or they are doing their homework? Or they're doing their job well? And when there is that criticism, that negative or constructive feedback, it's way easier for people to hear that if you've also paid attention to the all of the things that you love and appreciate about them.

Barry Selby [: 00:25:07

You know, the idea of giving criticism from a constructive place versus a destructive place. Because oftentimes, we are upset with somebody with no presence of mind even to say, and before I give you feedback, let me go process my emotions with another key, by the way, is if you're upset, don’t give feedback then. Take a moment to go, you know, what you need to do to freshen up, release the energy, go and yell at the trees or something, and then come back in and say, okay. Now I can communicate because this didn't work, but let me offer you some ideas that may make it easier for us because the thing is that's the thing about feedback. Oftentimes, we don't even give our partner or our employees or our leaders, any clues of what to do next. It's like there's something in meetings. You know, if you're coming with a critique of something that they've got lined up, at least have 2 alternative solutions for the idea of bringing your creativity to the communication so that the other person doesn't feel like, oh, I'm doomed because they said something negative to me. I have no way out. But if they said that we can do this or this as well, they go, oh, you give me ideas. There are suggestions. So, again, uplifting because it's a great way of having a relationship with anybody.

Marli Williams [: 00:26:08

I love this quote that says, a complaint is a desire in disguise. So, it's like notice like the things that you complain about. If you complain about someone being late or whatever, then your desire is people are on time. Again, we can be problem oriented or we can be solution oriented. So, what's the desire? What's the solution? Can you bring some of those things to the table? Like, this isn't working. I'm wondering if we could together explore other options. Here's a couple that I've thought about. What do you think? Right?

Marli Williams [: 00:26:42

And one of the things I know we both learned from Marla in the world of ethical sales is consent. And I think that's a powerful thing in relationship and especially feedback is even just straight up asking, are you open to receiving feedback? Is now the right time? Are you able to receive this? And sometimes I've even said, hey. This is something that I am working on as a leader is giving people constructive feedback from a place of love, and that's really hard for me and I want you to know that. Like, this is a skill that I'm working on. Like and again, transparency builds trust because it might feel awkward. It might feel scary. It might feel, you know, especially at the beginning, like, how do I do this and how do I do this? You know, like, I'm just going to do the best that I can. And I'm open to feedback on my feedback. Like, how did that land for you? Or so I think the consent is a key piece of that as well in our relationships and our leadership of asking people if they're open to receiving it.

Barry Selby [: 00:27:42

Absolutely. That's the thing about this work is those translate from just the intimate relationships to every relationship.

Marli Williams [: 00:27:48

Yeah. What would you say when you think about, you know, you have been in this leadership space, workshops, seminars, speaking. What would you say makes someone not just a good leader, but an epic leader. Someone who's exceptional at leading people through transformation, leading people and guiding people in organizations. What are some of the skills, the characteristics that you have seen in those that you admire and look up to and respect?

Barry Selby [: 00:28:24

Well, 2 come to mind right away, and I know that Mala demonstrates that to us and you do as well is integrity and transparency. And they sound fancy words, but the truth of what it is, is to really know who you are, because a lot of people on stage are talking about material that they don't really honor and own themselves. So being in integrity is like everything comes together in one place. So, the other part of transparency, as we said earlier, is to not hide your flaws, to not hide your growth edge, so to speak, you were saying as well, is to not say upfront, I'm working on this. Please help me with it, but more like, I'm not perfect, which is one of the things we forget leaders aren't perfect because sometimes we think they're on a pedestal. They're the great people. Relationships with themselves, especially, but the idea of being okay with the fact that they're not perfect and then them being on the front saying, I know I'm not perfect, not in necessarily words, but why they show us, like, this is what I'm working on. This is my growth edge, you know, so I know that I'm in the trenches with you sort of thing.

Barry Selby [: 00:29:18

There's a sense of being together. So that's 2 main focuses. Obviously, you know, love for the audience, love for the message, love for your work, so it's all about the upliftment and expansion for everybody and being someone who's done the work. That's the biggest thing I've had to learn. I've said it, but then I'm now living it is to always if you're a coach, have a coach that works for you as well so you're not just thinking because the thing is this came up in a conversation years ago about how when we're climbing on the journey of growth, we have 2 hands. 1, the people below us and want to be helped by those above us. When we're a coach or a leader, know there's always somebody above us we can learn from and be a student of too because, really, if we think there's nobody above us, in a way, we've failed our people below us. You know?

Marli Williams [: 00:30:01

Yeah. And that you know, someone who's growth oriented. And that's one of the things that I love about leadership. The thing I love about this podcast is, like, it's an opportunity for me to continue to learn and grow as a leader and to say, I'm not perfect. I don't have all the answers. I don't have it figured out. And there's always someone that can help me and there's always someone that I can help along their journey. And there's no destination to get to. It's really a journey and an exploration of, I love what you said, integrity and transparency. And that integrity piece is really about cultivating, like, so much self-awareness. Like, I know who I am. I know my flaws. I know where I'm exceptional. I know where my growth edge is. And integrity is, you know, doing the work, being a student of the work, being a steward of the work, and then, like, guiding people. We often teach what we most need to learn. Right? Like, you as being a relationship expert, you're like, yeah. I went through this experience and did a deep dive into, like, how to have better relationships. Like, I don't ever want to have that experience again. What can I do? How can I grow? How can I learn? And now it's how can I teach others what I've learned along that journey? So, it's not about being perfect and that level of transparency. What do you think gets in the way people being more transparent in their leadership?

Barry Selby [: 00:31:35

Part of it is I don't think they believe that people will trust them with their flaws. But the other part also is that and when you said this too, but I know it's one of my things that I had along the way because one of my things I talk about a lot in my work because I’ve been single since 2006 is that I get to talk about relationships, having been single for the last 17, 17 years. Jesus. And so, there's a part of me that when people ask me, like, how can you be teaching this stuff if you're not in one? It's like I've been in plenty, but I haven't been studying and been learning on working on myself for the last bunch of years, and that's the biggest part of my work because every relationship, both partners need to be working on themselves, same as leaders too. So, what you said is absolutely right on is being growth oriented and being in the journey is what makes us better teachers. And, you know, there's like the quote from Bakura Banzai. Like, you know, doesn't matter where you go, there you are. There is no there is no there, there.

Barry Selby [: 00:32:24

You're always in the process. You don't get to a destination and stop. For me, I know that with this work, that, yes, I'll be in a relationship at some point. I'm not attached to 1 because the work is so important to me that that fills my life. But the thing is I don't have to wait till I get there to do what I'm doing, and that's where the joy is. I get to serve and inspire other people along the journey who maybe don't have as much understanding experience that I have that I can share with them. That's the part of it. So, when we do the work, it's one of the biggest gifts too, is when we get to share with other people, we learn the work another level.

Marli Williams [: 00:32:55

Yeah. When we teach it, then we're learning it in a, yeah, in a whole new way. And, you know, I think that the greatest gift that I believe that we can give ourselves as partners, as parents, as leaders is growing ourselves, nurturing ourselves, learning about ourselves, discovering the things that light us up, that bring us joy, looking at the patterns. You know, I've been in relationships that weren't aligned that were extremely challenging both work relationships and personal relationships and looking at those not as failures, but as really big invitations for learning and growth. I'm reading a book right now called Unreasonable Hospitality. It's so good. I love the word unreasonable. He had a quote in there that his dad told him, don't waste adversity.

Marli Williams [: 00:33:49

Don't waste adversity. Like, when you are given those challenges whether that the relational, like, you know, as a leader, like, we're going to face challenges in the workplace, in our life. As an entrepreneur, you're going to come up against your own. It's like being an entrepreneur is your own personal development journey in and of itself. All the self-doubt and all the noise and all the adversities of why aren't people signing up for this or why isn't this working. And this idea of instead of judging ourselves and shaming and blaming ourselves or shaming and blaming others, it's like, what is the lesson that I am meant to learn through this season of my life, through the season of my growth? And the thing about leadership is there's always a next kind of level. And we live in this world like, oh, once I get there and once, I hit six figures or once I have the book or once I have the TED talk or, you know, once I have this many employees, then I'll be successful.

Barry Selby [: 00:34:49

There's a book, Mastery, by Wyndham Glasser. It's, I'm wondering if it's about, I remember barely, it’s about the idea of plateaus. We get to a certain level of achievement, and we think, I've got it. I'm there. But then we forget that running on a ledge, running on a plateau is another rise coming up. The truth is that this journey, as you said, is always about growth, that we get to a point, yes, we can rest for a bit, we can maintain for a few years a certain level, but the next level's beckoning us. Sick of it. We need to go. You know what? Let's, like, suit up, and let's climb the next hill and keep going up. That's part of the evolution. So, yeah, this is good stuff.

Marli Williams [: 00:35:22

Yeah. It's so good. Okay. So, I would love for you to share any final thoughts that you have with our audience today as it's related to relationships, to leadership. What do you want people to take away from our conversation today?

Barry Selby [: 00:35:40

Actually, what came right away was to let your own self be true is that sense of you being an integral to yourself. Every part of the place you teach, you learn, everything you're in, you're the only person you're really with ultimately the whole time. So, being true to yourself, to your own values, and to discover what your values are because, again, with integrity and transparency, we can navigate through the world in a way that is kind, compassionate, but also respecting ourselves with healthy boundaries. I mean, all the pieces of the puzzle that come together, start with being true to yourself. So, that one works for me.

Marli Williams [: 00:36:10

Yeah. Being true to yourself and really knowing who you are, knowing what your values are, knowing what you stand for as a leader. And I think this invitation to always be learning, always be growing. And my bold, like, homework assignment for you, if you want to take this into the world, is to ask the people around you for feedback. Are you brave and bold and willing enough to say, how could I do it better? And you could be specific. I would love for you to tell me 3 things that you love about me as a boss, as a leader, as a parent, as a partner. And one thing that, like, if I did it better would help us be better together as a team, in a partnership. And if you do this and you send me an email, I will personally send you a video message back because I think it's one thing to talk about these things on a podcast, another thing to listen to it. I'm glad that you're here listening. And it's another thing to be in action. And that is one thing that as a leader, I'm really passionate about. We can talk about these things, but it's like leadership is an action. It's not a concept. It's not an elusive idea. It's who you're being and how you're showing up every day. And if you are a leader that is committed to growth, to learning and to being the best leader you can be, asking for feedback is one of the greatest gifts you can give yourself and to those that you love and lead. So, that's my bold move request for you. Where can people learn more about you and your amazing work in the world?

Barry Selby [: 00:37:57

Basically, all over social media and on my website's my name, so it's easy to find me. So just go barryselby.com or YouTube for Barry Selby or all the other platforms. Instagram is the real Barry Selby that got shifted because somebody took the old account. I cohost my own 2 podcasts with 2 wonderful guests. The cohosts that you find me on Apple Podcasts are searching for my name there. So, and books on Amazon. So, basically, look for my name. I'm everywhere.

Marli Williams [: 00:38:17

Look for Barry. He's amazing. Check out his work and I just want to thank you so much for being with us today and sharing your heart, sharing your love, sharing your leadership. And until next time, we will see you next week. Alright, everybody. Take care. Peace.

Marli Williams [: 00:38:34

Thank you for joining us on another inspiring episode of the Marli Williams podcast. We hope you're leaving here with renewed energy and valuable insights to fuel your leadership, coaching and speaking endeavors. I'd love to invite you to subscribe, rate, and review this podcast to help us reach more aspiring leaders and speakers like you. We have more exciting episodes and remarkable guests lined up, so make sure to tune in next time. Until then, keep leading with purpose, coaching with heart, and speaking with conviction. This is Marli Williams signing off. See you next week.